Pump flow and pvc pipe flow???
- Thread starter Young347
- Start date
it's was used but it's very nice so the bulkhead in it are 1 inch and 3/4 so I am trying to figure out what sump pump I need to buy to have max flow ???? It has dual over flow so it's 2 1 inch and 2 3/4 inch holesI would rather keep 3/4 for the return and the 1 inches for the drains I already had a syphon on the back of an older tank I bough the drilled tank to got rid of all the clutter and crap in the back lol I am curious I do not know how to make the syphon on the bull head drains ?? Also another question I want to run the 2 pipes down and the join them and go from the 1 inch to 2 inch pvc wouldn't that make them flow more anyways?? And another not they will be almost 6 ft in the air so wouldn't that also contribute to them flowing more
And what return pump rate should I get and brand also
And what return pump rate should I get and brand also
fishgate
Active member
A single 1" pipe running full siphon with a 6ft drop can flow over 2800 gph. I don't think you want that much flow.
You can join the pipes together but it doesn't really gain you anything. I have a dual overflow system with bottom drains and I run 2 drains separately into the sump. They are not full siphon however.
For your setup you might want to look at using the 3/4" holes for the drains and the 1" for the returns. A 3/4" drain can run 1600 gph.
The siphon is easy to make just have the drain head turned 180 degrees (facing down) and don't use a vent hole. With a full siphon you need at least an open channel drain to help tune it and it is highly recommended to have an emergency drain in case of a clog. Search for "Bean Animal". That is the general design you want.
You are going to need an expensive and powerful pump to be able to flow 2000+ gph at 6' head. It will use a lot of power too.
You can join the pipes together but it doesn't really gain you anything. I have a dual overflow system with bottom drains and I run 2 drains separately into the sump. They are not full siphon however.
For your setup you might want to look at using the 3/4" holes for the drains and the 1" for the returns. A 3/4" drain can run 1600 gph.
The siphon is easy to make just have the drain head turned 180 degrees (facing down) and don't use a vent hole. With a full siphon you need at least an open channel drain to help tune it and it is highly recommended to have an emergency drain in case of a clog. Search for "Bean Animal". That is the general design you want.
You are going to need an expensive and powerful pump to be able to flow 2000+ gph at 6' head. It will use a lot of power too.
Well I called around and I was under the impression I wanted 10x tank size turn over and the companies I talked to said if you pumps fast you refuguim doesn't have to to treat your water so go for more around 5 to 6 x and nothing less than 3x tank size and said my pump should be just right and that I could go alittle larger if I wanted but is not needed just make sure I have enough power heads flow to keep everything flowing good
fishgate
Active member
10x times turnover doesn't mean flow to your sump. It is tank turnover rate which includes powerhead water movement within the tank. The general accepted flow to the sump is more like 6x. But even that is dependent on a number of things. I think if you went with a single 1" full siphon to the sump you would be fine. Any more than that is too much.
uncleof6
Active member
You are quoting max-theoretical flow rates, that apply to an open hole or bulkhead. They do not equate to real world flow rates once pipe is added. How high the friction loss will be is a matter of pipe size. Therefore larger pipe is preferred, and 3/4" should be out of the question, as the friction losses are excessive.
Also running a siphon with an open channel—without a dry emergency backup, is asking for a flood. It does not matter how many folks do it, it is not safe.
uncleof6
Active member
The only argument that can hold up concerning using old antiquated flow rates from the under-gravel filter era, is power consumption. However, that is becoming less of an issue as better pumps are around that outperform the old outdated pumps that have not been updated for 40 years. Lots of folks making guesses about this stuff, but the higher the flow rate, (through sump) the more efficient the system is. It is a given for multipass systems, such as an aquarium.
The power heads are adjunctive aids to circulation, they are not supplementary or complimentary so they do not add to a total with the return flow. It is a pretty absurd notion, as they do completely different jobs.
I know they do not do anything other then articulating the water in the tank but by doing that your tank does not have dead spots mixing the cleaned water from the sump with the water in the tank diluting all the dirty water making it cleaner The sump if you have to much flow then the protein skimmer and bio pellet reactor will not have enough time to do its job efficiencly
GhostCon1
Rebmem Deretsiger
Periods. Please. Lol :beer:
But a protein skimmer, reactors, etc can only hold so much water volume. A faster flow rate through the sump won't increase the amount of water going through them. Also, most of the time they have their own pumps drawing water into them and again a faster flow rate through the sump won't affect that.
Basically what I'm saying is that just because you have a high turnover in your sump, that doesn't mean that your protein skimmers and reactors don't have enough time to do their job - the water won't be "pushed"out of them any faster.
laverda
Well-known member
The first question everyone should have asked is what size tank are you talking about?
10 times tank volume used to be the flow rate people aimed for through their sumps. Modern thinking is 5 times is plenty. Most overflows will not handle 10 times anyway.
The next thing to realize is that if a pump is rated at 1000 GPH that does not mean your going to get 1000 GPH through your returns to the tank. Depending on your pump and plumbing, the flow could be less then half that amount. You need to look at the flow chart of the pump your considering and see how much if flows at 5 or 6 feet of head depending on the height of your tank. Then every plumbing fitting you use will reduce that especially Ts and 90 degree fittings.
10 times tank volume used to be the flow rate people aimed for through their sumps. Modern thinking is 5 times is plenty. Most overflows will not handle 10 times anyway.
The next thing to realize is that if a pump is rated at 1000 GPH that does not mean your going to get 1000 GPH through your returns to the tank. Depending on your pump and plumbing, the flow could be less then half that amount. You need to look at the flow chart of the pump your considering and see how much if flows at 5 or 6 feet of head depending on the height of your tank. Then every plumbing fitting you use will reduce that especially Ts and 90 degree fittings.
Do not run without an emergency drain, and run your returns over the back. I am telling you not doing so will most likely be a mistake you regret. A pump that runs 900GPH will pump 15 gallons from your sump every minute on your floor until it is empty. A couple of 3/4" pieces of PVC in the back of the tank don't take up much room and will be hardly noticeable.
Sorry kn8kbyf but I do not see how the pump will pump into my ground as long as my 2 gravity pipes flow more then my pump can physically pump how will it over flow my tank and as for the back syphon into the sump if a power outage a spring loaded ball valve should stop it and if not I am also going to make sure my return lines into my tank only go about half an inch under water and so my 40 gallon breed sump it will hold all the back siphoned water anyways what am I missing ?? Are you talking if the gravety feed drain lines get stopped up ??? If that happens from my measurements from the overflow lip in my tank I still have m 2 or so inches to the top it will hold he extra water from my sump without overflowing please I am not saying your wron. I just wanna know what I am missing ??
Yes if your gravity lines get clogged up (only takes a snail or some other thing that doesn't belong) and all of a sudden you go from extra flow to not enough and no where for the water to go. A single drain is going to be super noisy unless you put a valve on it to make it a full siphon. If you make it a full siphon you no longer have any extra capacity. Lastly, backflow it is best not to use spring loaded backflows due to metal in them and also not a good idea to rely on any backflow preventer as a sole safety. They also fail by clogging always in the open position.
I'll have to experiment with it but I get what your saying I have will not have any snails or things that small in my tank and I will have covers over the overflow boxes I am making all over my main connections where I can take them off for monthly maintenance but ya I appreciate the info for the future just in case
