Putting Matrix to the test now that Marinepure is out

[jason2459]

Seachem none surprisingly deny this. I have read a lot about it and considered just heading to Home Depot and grabbing some bags.

Here's their claims
http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/general-discussion/2884-matrix-vs-pumice

In the end I decided to just spend the extra money. With as much as I have tied into my reef the money is worth the piece of mind. I have also read so many positive reports on how well it works. If it lives up to half the claims it's well worth the money.

I hear good things about NoPox. I think a lot of the bad reports are people starting with off the charts nitrates. I think you should get your nitrates down to a reasonable level before implementing something as strong as NOPOX or Biopellets or ramp the product up slowly.

I do not see Seachem denying it's pumice stone. I just read all that as Seachem saying their (pumice) stone is better because they claim to know the source of the stone is safe for our tanks and inspected (somehow) to be a better pore size vs buying cheap unknown pumice stone from a garden store.

Which knowing the source could help reduce the chance of unwanted elements.

 

[Roggio]

On a whim tonight I decided to test the tank. I cannot believe the results. I tested twice and I'm racking my brain to try and figure out how this happened. I will go into a detailed list of everything I did because in less than a week I was successful. By no means was my test proper controlled test and other variables could have come into play. As much as I don't want to believe it... the Pond Matrix was a key component.

The results speak for themselves. Incase it's hard to see the Nitrates are around 5 or less.

Here's a list of everything that happened with this tank.

Tank cleaned with vinegar
Sand added from an old tank
Added a few pieces of rock
sand treated with a little Biomate, Zeobak and Zeozym.
without testing I added ammonia and a bottle of Bio-Spira.
I continued to add ammonia daily until the bacteria was able to drop it to zero within 24 hours.
Phosphates and Nitrates remained off the charts
tank sat roughly for a month or longer
Phosphates and Nitrates were still off the charts when I added 20L of Pond Matrix and a little Bio-Spira I had left in the bottle.
Prior to adding the Pond Matrix the sand still had a brownish tint to it and the water was cloudy (see first pic)
After adding the media the water was noticeably clearer within 24 hours
Despite the high phosphates/Nitrates I decided to add the clown as a small source of ammonia. I watched them closely for any signs of distress.
I believe in the Redfield Ratio and thought the addition of a small ammonia source would be helpful over what I thought would be weeks of cycling.

5 days later these are my results... I almost feel foolish posting them. Without a doubt the Pond Matrix served as a surface to grow bacteria. Denitrifying bacteria was able to form and consume the nitrates. I don't think this means Matrix is the Holy Grail of keeping your nutrients in check but it definitely worked in my application.

IMO this is part of a inexpensive system to control nutrients. If you combine bio media with some kind of carbon source you will see the best results.

I will leave the tank as is for a little longer and continue to test ... stay tuned!

 

[tmz]

Looks like it's moving in the right direction. That's the same size matrix I use ;though as it happens not in the main system where there is an abundance of live rock in cryptic refugia.

...The patented mix of Nitrococcus, Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira and Nitrospira ... from the Bio-Spira manufacturer's product description.

Assuming arguendo that they are viable, I think those are all chemoautorphic oxidizer's for nitrification and denitrification. Organic carbon would encourage heterotrophs which would compete with them for nitrogen and may not be needed or desired at this stage, IMO.

 

[Roggio]

I've added them to my main system. I'm hoping this will lead to less of a demand for vodka dosing. I'm getting really bad cyno in my refugium (common side affect of vodka dosing). There's a lot of flow with an MP10. Maybe it's the horticulture lights.

 

[tmz]

The extra surface area may help denitirification with or without vodka dosing;the heterotrophs will also benefit from places to grow but their relatively large biomass may clog things up .
Matrix won't do much for phosphate reduction like carbon dosing will though. IME, the cyano is a start up issue over the first month or two with ethanol dosing and vinegar dosing .

 

[Roggio]

IME, the cyano is a start up issue over the first month or two with ethanol dosing and vinegar dosing .

That's good to hear. I was thinking about dropping the photo period to 14 hours at night to better balance the PH now that my nutrients are under control.

I just hooked my vodka up to the Doser. I'm having it slowly drop into the sump over a 24 hour period. I read what you said about bolus dosing and hope this doesn't have an ill effect on nitrates. My goal is to gradually reduce the amount I need to dose.


Hmmm, phosphates are easily fixed with GFO (I have a few gallons of Rowa Phos) but I've always been worried about running it. I have bottomed out my nitrite in the past and my nitrates skyrocketed.

I also decided to add Purigen based on your build.

By the way, I appreciate the help Tom

 

[Roggio]

So after adding the Pond Matrix to my refugium I have lowered my vodka dose by about 25%. 15ML after being up to 20ML. I will continue to lower the amount of Vodka I use until I start seeing something on the test results. Currently my test results are at 0-0-(~1) I have the slightest tint of pink on my Nitrates (Red Sea). I believe the matrix will continue to get stronger bacteria wise overtime. I have my vodka hooked up to a dosing unit the bolus doses twice a day. I still strongly believe in this method of carbon dosing however, there are some negative effects and if I can lower the amount dosed by having bio media I'd prefer it.

I have lowered the photo period on my refugium because growth has slowed. I also hope to better balance my PH by running it on an opposite schedule.

Overall, my polyp extension is great and the tank appears to be healthy and thriving. Most of my coral has been in there less than two weeks so I cannot comment on growth yet.

I've noticed even the ammonia doesnt have the slightest hint of yellow like when I test my RODI water. With my huge bioload this is very impressive results.

Here's a fuge shot.

I carved a skull out of live rock. I hope to drop a peacock mantis in there at some point and let him take residence under it

 

[tmz]

Reducing the carbon dose may be a good idea.


For clarity; there are at least 3 bacterial activities in play:

ammonia oxidizers which require a lot of O2 and floursih via aerobic activity on surfaces exposed to higher flow, convering ammonia to nitrite and nitrate;

anerobic activity via autotrophic denitrifiers which need areas of low flow and low O2 and taking the O from nitrate(NO3) leaving N,some of which which forms N2 a gas that bubbles out of the tank ;

and, heterotrophic bacteria which need an organic carbon source and use ammonia for a nitrogen source without producing nitrate.

Balancing all of that is what you are after.

I'd ,personally, siphon out as much cyano as I could from the sump.

As the carbon dose is reduced, monitroing the PO4 level is prudent ,IMO. You may never need gfo: I don't. The heterotrophic bacteria are relatively large and use quite a bit of it but they are also known to diminish the ammonia oxidizers.

 

[Roggio]

Wow, thank you Tom! I really appreciate your advise. Also your thread on dosing is great, I spent several days reading it. I think it set me up for a lifetime of great reef keeping.

I just wanted to give a quick update.

I've placed the Matrix in my refugium of my 600g system and incorporated the 150g reef tank. I have been adding coral food and amino's to the tank as well. Despite this my nutrients are are 0 across the board. I know 0 phosphates is not desirable but I have been broadcast feeding and I have a huge bioload for a two month old tank (6 large tangs, two huge Zebra Morays, and various smaller fish. A week ago I added 20+ SPS frags and a clam and they all seem to be doing well.

I have been able to lower the amount of vodka to 10ml from 20ml while still having undetectable nutrients. The cyno I had in the refugium is pretty much gone on it's own. I don't know if this was attributed to lowering the vodka or just the tank becoming established. I've also lowered the photo period to 14 hours opposite to the tank to help balance PH.

Some other contributing factors; my SRO 5000 pulls out a ridiculous amount of waste. Even on a dry setting I'm pulling out a 2/3 full skimmer of black sludge every 3 days. The foam even comes out of the holes in the top. I don't know if this is just waste leftover or my bioload is truly that high. I've also been using Sponge Power which works surprisingly well and switched from feeding pellets to real foods. I buy shrimp and nori from Costco at a fraction of the cost of the LFS food.

Here's an updated pic of the 250

 

[tmz]

You are welcome.Good luck.
The 10 ml vodka dose is more normative than the 20ml for 150 gallons . The amount needed for a maintenance dose varies depending on the specifics of a given aquarium.FWIW, in my case, 36 ml vodka and 60 ml vinegar( equivalent to 8 additional ml of vodka ) for a total of 44ml for a 700 gallon heavily fed system holds PO4 around 0.02 to 0.04ppm with NO3 undetectable to barely detectable (0.2ppm or so). I do add a tiny bit (1tsp of sodium nitrate ) every week or so.