Qt/fallow/ttm myth???????

pktech said:
Again if all things stated are true, I believe they are the carriers & even if he went another 12 weeks fallow, & did TTM again by the book, I'd bet we would read this same unfortunate result. The only true way to eradicate this is to start over, in my opinion.
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If TTM was executed correctly, there's no way for a fish to be a carrier. TTM eliminates the possibility of reinfection by removing the cyst stage. With each transfer, you only have the possibility of trophonts that are already on the fish, and these are eliminated by the second transfer typically.
 
Occams Razor. Probably not some freaky new super crypto strain that came here on a meteorite. Most likely it was some issue with your TTM/QT methods. Sucks I know, but that is probably the most likely cause. If your goal is an ich free DT, then you need to start the process over. If you can stand having a system with ich, keep the fish well fed and stress free as possible.

I would start the TTM/QT over again because it would bother me to no end.
 
TTM, while effective if done right, is very easy to screw up.
That's why I find it best to either use 4 sets of everything and/or combine it with other ich fighting methods like hyposalinity, CP or copper to add another layer of safety.
 
Deinonych said:
If TTM was executed correctly, there's no way for a fish to be a carrier. TTM eliminates the possibility of reinfection by removing the cyst stage. With each transfer, you only have the possibility of trophonts that are already on the fish, and these are eliminated by the second transfer typically.
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Sorry about that! I meant the snails being carriers. OP claims he executed TTM correctly, so over that period of time something has to be sustaining ich.
 
OP, fwiw, i TTM'ed a bunch of Tang's about a year ago using a pair of 30g tanks. i have been doing TTM for years and am extremely confident in my procedures. However, during my 3 weeks post-TTM QT period, Ich started popping back up on the Tang's. To this day, I have no clue what went wrong in my procedures, but it obviously happened. I did a 2nd round of TTM and seems to have worked.

Keep in mind that there is an unlucky chance that a cyst forms on the fish itself, who knows perhaps on the barb of a Tang. The Tang's that I had were literally depressingly covered in Ich when I got them (they were in a tank with a non-therapeutic level of copper at the dealer), so I was dealing with an insane (i was sure all the fish would die it was so bad) number of parasites compared to a normal fish I would treat.

Not sure if you had a similar issue with your first treatment, but at least for me, in the future if I have a bad outbreak, I am just going to TTM twice to not take chances (2nd round of TTM with a much lower number of parasites to start with). My DT loves the periodic water changes from TTM anyway.
 
Yes, it could be one of those rare cases where Cryptocaryon encysted on the fish.
Also, as stated above, tangs have hard, exposed surfaces - the scalpels at the sides of their tails - where a protomont can encyst like on a rock.

Maybe try TTM in combination with hyposalinity next time. The hyposalinity will prevent protomonts from encysting and add a second layer of safety.
 
Spar said:
OP, fwiw, i TTM'ed a bunch of Tang's about a year ago using a pair of 30g tanks. i have been doing TTM for years and am extremely confident in my procedures. However, during my 3 weeks post-TTM QT period, Ich started popping back up on the Tang's. To this day, I have no clue what went wrong in my procedures, but it obviously happened. I did a 2nd round of TTM and seems to have worked.

Keep in mind that there is an unlucky chance that a cyst forms on the fish itself, who knows perhaps on the barb of a Tang. The Tang's that I had were literally depressingly covered in Ich when I got them (they were in a tank with a non-therapeutic level of copper at the dealer), so I was dealing with an insane (i was sure all the fish would die it was so bad) number of parasites compared to a normal fish I would treat.

Not sure if you had a similar issue with your first treatment, but at least for me, in the future if I have a bad outbreak, I am just going to TTM twice to not take chances (2nd round of TTM with a much lower number of parasites to start with). My DT loves the periodic water changes from TTM anyway.
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Thanks for the help guys. Today tangs look much better. So are you suggesting to do the TTm for 2 rounds and let the display sit fallow for another 12 weeks? Also when I did my TTm I used new equipment for the transfer. I had 2 sets of equipment that I bought from petco. So at least after the first transport it was impossible for anything to be in the water or on fish. But after that I was still rinsing it in fresh water and letting it dry out completely. Man another 12 weeks fishless will be hard. Corals didn't like it being fishless and sort of losing motivation.
 
Well figured I'd keep this tread updated on what happens. Fish are still doing fine. Spots are not major. Maybe 10-15 per fish. Tangs are both eating like pigs. So it seems to me that the only way to ensure a 100 percent ICK FREE tank is when you do the initial start up. I'm just going to let this tank run as it is now and see what happens in the future. Im not going to drain the whole tank and let everything dry etc etc..if I ever upgrade and fish still alive than I will def do the whole 9 yards starting new TTM before introducing into new tank. By my research their are strands of cryptoirratins that no one knows how long the cysts last for. If anyone has any similar situations PLEASE do share and any tips are better than no tips. Thanks guys
 
well day 11. fish still look fine still have some spots and still eat. for some odd reason like a hour before the lights go off the powder blue starts acting wierd. he turns a lil pail and swims really fast and gets aggresive with the purple tang. they are both trying to make the right rock tower their home. any tips would be great.
 
Dbondaruk said:
well day 11. fish still look fine still have some spots and still eat. for some odd reason like a hour before the lights go off the powder blue starts acting wierd. he turns a lil pail and swims really fast and gets aggresive with the purple tang. they are both trying to make the right rock tower their home. any tips would be great.
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all my tangs do this nearly every night. as long as nothing too serious starts to happen (multiple gashes, excessive torn fins, etc), i'd just let them play it out until they get the pecking order and top-spots figured out.

i will notice an occasional battle mark on my tangs, but they regenerate pretty quick and nobody gets hurt long run.
 
Spar said:
all my tangs do this nearly every night. as long as nothing too serious starts to happen (multiple gashes, excessive torn fins, etc), i'd just let them play it out until they get the pecking order and top-spots figured out.

i will notice an occasional battle mark on my tangs, but they regenerate pretty quick and nobody gets hurt long run.
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Thanks man...I did put up a lil mirror on the rigth side today.after that i dont see them chasing each other anymore.i did this hoping to reduce some stress on them so they can fight the ick off... i have a foxface and a butterly fish going through TTM right now and than will put in QT.i will still continue with my QT protocol. but it sucks not knowing if ICK will wipe the whole tank out sometime soon
 
Anyone have any suggestions on how I should proceed with my tank. I have a butterfly and a foxface going through TTM ATM
 
Getting them out and letting the go fallow for the 72 days is really the best option. I did it for 5 weeks for Brook last year, could have ended in divorce. The living room was an aquatic swap meet.

Year later, the tank is Ich and Brook free. In the end it's worth it.
 
ok update.. all fish still alive... but that ich is bugging me.... debating if i should try going fallow again or should i completly restart... if i completly restarted what would be the best way to deal with my sps corals and inverts. thanks
 
I was told that if you have any sponges, filter socks, or even nets that you have used they need to be baked or boiled. The eggs can live through a fresh water dip and even being completely dried out.

I'm on my second round of no fish in the main tank. I've lost a few good fish due to this and I am not happy about it. Tomorrow 7/31 will be 10 weeks. I'm going to put my hippo in the main tank and let her sit for a week or two. I don't think I want to catch all my fish again in a reef. If after the first week she still looks good I'll start moving my fish over.

It sucks.
 
Midnightt said:
I was told that if you have any sponges, filter socks, or even nets that you have used they need to be baked or boiled. The eggs can live through a fresh water dip and even being completely dried out.
Click to expand...

24hrs of complete desiccation will kill all stages, including the cysts.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

Problem with sponges is that you can't ensure they are completely dry due to their ability to retain moisture for long periods of time. Best to just throw them out. Filter socks and nets can be soaked in bleach to ensure eradication.
 
Midnightt said:
I was told that if you have any sponges, filter socks, or even nets that you have used they need to be baked or boiled. The eggs can live through a fresh water dip and even being completely dried out.
Click to expand...

24hrs of complete desiccation will kill all stages, including the cysts.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

Problem with sponges is that you can't ensure they are completely dry due to their ability to retain moisture for long periods of time. Best to just throw them out. Filter socks and nets can be soaked in bleach to ensure eradication.
 
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