Qt/fallow/ttm myth???????

[Dbondaruk]

Hello guys i am at total loss right now... here is my story.
I have a 190 gallon tank that recently had ich. i lost every fish but my 2 clowns so this i swhat i did.i set up a new 40 gallon tank as a QT. while it was cycling this is what happened. I ordered 1 purple tang. 1 powder blue tank. i pulled the clowns out of the display tank and used 2 (20) gallon tanks and did TTM on all 3 fish. thank those 3 fish where in my QT tank for 12 WEEKS while my display was 100 PERCENT fishless going FALLOW for 12 weeks. after 12 weeks the fish in qt looked great no signs of nothing so i put them back into display tank after 12 weeks, it was actully a lil over 12 weeks. nothing has changed in my display tank, 3 WEEKS LATER my PT has ich and mt PBT is starting to show lil white spots. i did everything by the book what has happened??????

 

[BuzzPion]

Sounds like you messed up the ttm. How did you do ttm?

 

[Dbondaruk]

Sounds like you messed up the ttm. How did you do ttm?

I know i did the TTM correct because my clowns had ich after TTM and in the QT tank no signs of ich. i followed this method.
Day 1 - fish in QT.
Day 4 - in AM, but before tank lights come on (8-9 AM EST), transfer fish to new tank, matching temp and salinity. Transfer as little water as possible.
Day 7 - repeat.
Day 10 - repeat.
Day 13 - repeat and done.

After transferring, I sterilized all PVC, heaters, filters/powerheads, thermometer, etc with a mild bleach colution. Rinse well. Let dry before next transfer.

 

[snorvich]

What wet items were added to the tank while it was fallow?

 

[Dbondaruk]

What wet items were added to the tank while it was fallow?

Honestly nothing was added. No snails. No shrimp. No crabs. My tank was having a very bad hair algae situation so really wasn't feeding the corals much. I'm just at loss as to what could've possibly happened. Unless these white dots are not ich and something else idk.

 

[snorvich]

Describe behavior of the fish as well as appearance.

 

[Dbondaruk]

Describe behavior of the fish as well as appearance.

Ok fish are acting great. Eating like pigs. No scratching going on. Purple tang has around maybe 20 looks like sugar size little dots on his upper body. Powder blue is looking greeting eating good and has same amount of spots roughly. 2 clowns show no sign of anything. I will try to get a shot with my camera to see if anything is visible thru camera

 

[ThRoewer]

Your clowns likely have developed enough immunity against this strain to not get sick.

The 72 days just go back to one source observing it on one strain. It is quite likely that there are strains out there that can stay dormant for much longer. I got pretty solid statements from a fish collecting station in Kenya that Cryptocaryon outbreaks are seasonal and regularly occur during the monsoon season. During that time they stop collecting fish.

 

[Dbondaruk]

ok well a little hard to tell by these pictures but here it is.

 

[Dbondaruk]

Your clowns likely have developed enough immunity against this strain to not get sick.

The 72 days just go back to one source observing it on one strain. It is quite likely that there are strains out there that can stay dormant for much longer. I got pretty solid statements from a fish collecting station in Kenya that Cryptocaryon outbreaks are seasonal and regularly occur during the monsoon season. During that time they stop collecting fish.

so what would your suggestion be for me to move forward

 

[Deinonych]

While it is possible there are strains of Cryptocaryon that can survive fallow periods of longer 72 days, it's a pretty low probability IMO. We would be seeing more anecdotal evidence of it (not to mention appearance in scientific literature), if it were widespread. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, so I don't discount it wholesale. That said, I suspect something went wrong with your TTM protocol - either you allowed more than 72 hours to lapse between transfers, or the equipment didn't get sterilized properly.

If it were me, I'd likely try hyposalinity in the DT at this stage, relocating inverts to a QT temporarily. The likelihood you have a hypo-resistant AND a strain with a long cyst period is infinitesimally small.

 

[ThRoewer]

Hyposalinity in the DT is the nuclear option that will kill everything you can't remove

 

[Deinonych]

Hyposalinity in the DT is the nuclear option that will kill everything you can't remove

Except the fish, of course.

 

[ThRoewer]

Oops, hit enter by accident...

Only other explanations I could imagine is that somewhere during TTM a cyst survived or that ich got reintroduces in some other way..

What was the overall timeline?

 

[das75]

I'd just let things be. Feed them well and often, keep the stress down, no hands in the tank etc until clear.

I've had a purple and regal for years. Every few years if I do some major rock-scaping might get a few spots and then they'll just go away, no harm.

 

[pktech]

Are you opposed to using copper? Did you only use TTM? Sometimes you need a little more according to reports here.
I have to admit, the title of your post made me immediately call BS on your story. 12 weeks fallow is a long time. If thats true, you've got a superbug & I'd drain your tank completely, & nuke it & start over.

 

[ThRoewer]

Are you opposed to using copper? Did you only use TTM? Sometimes you need a little more according to reports here.
I have to admit, the title of your post made me immediately call BS on your story. 12 weeks fallow is a long time. If thats true, you've got a superbug & I'd drain your tank completely, & nuke it & start over.

Everybody should be opposed to poisoning fish with copper.

 

[Dbondaruk]

Are you opposed to using copper? Did you only use TTM? Sometimes you need a little more according to reports here.
I have to admit, the title of your post made me immediately call BS on your story. 12 weeks fallow is a long time. If thats true, you've got a superbug & I'd drain your tank completely, & nuke it & start over.

No I didn't use copper due to all the success with TTM. And I know TTM works because I clowns definitely had ICK. That's why I'm at lost, I will went over 12 weeks. I did the TTM super cautiously. The wired this is the fish where in QT for like 10 weeks while the tank was going fallow. THEY LOOKED PERFECT IN THE 40 gallon. Draining the tank is not going to be a option for me. It's a 190 gallon mildly stocked sps tank. So for now I am going to be lieing to myself telling myself it's not ICK and hopefully it goes away. Plz feel free to post advice,suggestions, all help is great. Thanks a lot

 

[Dbondaruk]

While it is possible there are strains of Cryptocaryon that can survive fallow periods of longer 72 days, it's a pretty low probability IMO. We would be seeing more anecdotal evidence of it (not to mention appearance in scientific literature), if it were widespread. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, so I don't discount it wholesale. That said, I suspect something went wrong with your TTM protocol - either you allowed more than 72 hours to lapse between transfers, or the equipment didn't get sterilized properly.

If it were me, I'd likely try hyposalinity in the DT at this stage, relocating inverts to a QT temporarily. The likelihood you have a hypo-resistant AND a strain with a long cyst period is infinitesimally small.

Thanks for the help. Running hypo would be very tough because all my corals are incrusted and I have over 150 snails but I will do further research into it.

 

[pktech]

Everybody should be opposed to poisoning fish with copper.

Low dose copper (cupramine) & TTM are very effective & are often used in tandem.

It doesn't matter at this point. OP says he's got over 150 snails in his SPS tank.

Again if all things stated are true, I believe they are the carriers & even if he went another 12 weeks fallow, & did TTM again by the book, I'd bet we would read this same unfortunate result. The only true way to eradicate this is to start over, in my opinion.

Maybe the 2 tangs are stressing each other out resulting in an outbreak? A pair of clowns will act agressively towards others too, so it sounds like many factors are in play.
OP I hope you can right the ship!