QT Tanks

[aly6764]

continuing the saga

continuing the saga

all was well for about 6 weeks, then being eager to see a stocked tank and being dumb as @%&# about reefkeeping we purchased approx. 25 fish and polyps and corals and acclimated thm for 6 hours then put them straight in the tank. A week later all heck broke loose... go figure...we sat by and watched one after another fish struggle & die, I cried, I felt helpless, and distraught. It was one of the most gruesome displays of "will to live" I have encountered. Eventually, all of the fish died except my final 4. The entire tank has been flourishing for the past 3 months( my pulsing xenia is stocking tanks all over FL) With trepidation I am wantig to restock. Set-up a 24 G aquapod Nano with water from the 500 Gal. It has been 2 months since the ich episode, but the survivors were never quarantined, sO I guess I am going to start over. will my final 4 be O.K. in a 24 gal. tank while I let the display tank cure? Sorry so long, but I think the history is crucial to setting up a successful, flourishing reef system. Please help and thank yu in advance for all your help and knowledge.

Aly

 

[Freed]

1 blonde naso tang(Lilu)
- 1 mystery wrasse (Sid)
- 1 pink-spotted fairy wrasse (Mel)
- 1 hippo tang ( Lazarus

If these are the four you are talking about that are left they should be OK, as long as they aren't huge, in the 24 as long as you don't have a bunch of non necessary items in there with them such as live rock. Some large PVC fittings used to hide in will work fine.

 

[Steven Pro]

I count 6 fish with the two percs in the anemone. Unless the naso and hippo are tiny, it sounds like too many fish for the 24 to me.

 

[fishtk75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7702312#post7702312 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steven Pro
No, I didn't perform or know of any direct comparison tests.
To some extent.
I don't use either.
Nutrient control always works for me. Just because your tests read zero does not mean there are not nutrients in the water. Phosphate test kits are inherently limited and often give a false zero reading because of the various forms phosphate may take. Use of purified water, protein skimming, vegetable filtration, high quality salt mix, careful feeding and dosing, etc. are all necessary to keep nuisance "algae" in check.

thank you for your help.
What is vegetable filtration?
I am still learning.
When you say nutrient control is that what as to how much of what not to put in the tank as additives.
Do this not this everyone has there own setup.
I like to start over.
If you have time a list please of what you use works for you on a program that if you had my 120 reef what do you do as filtration, media,feeding and water supplements,water changing,other maintenance,etc.
I very much will thank you.

 

[Steven Pro]

Vegetable filtration would be things like an algal turf scrubber or refugium growing Chaetomorpha or Caulerpa or some other macroalgae.

Nutrient control is the use of purified water, protein skimming, vegetable filtration, high quality salt mix, careful feeding and dosing, etc. It is all about watching what you add and being sure you take out the extra.

A lot of my general aquarium care philosophy can be seen here http://www.pmas.org/pro/ It discusses my old 55, but the general idea is the same.

 

[Steven Pro]

By the way fishtk75, are you a member of the North Central PA Aquarium Reef Society?

 

[aly6764]

Steven Pro or Freed,
Thanks for the reply, My 24 G does have some live rock in it. The four fish I have left Are the Naso 5 inches, Sailfin 5 inches, the mystery wrasse 3 inches, and an eyelash blenny 3 inches. Will the rock be a problem for QT?

 

[fishtk75]

You mean the fourm at North Central PA Aquarium Reef Society
I just signed up.
Also I stared a refuge on the 120 as you said to and read your 55 setup.

 

[Depth]

Steven,

Did you manage to read the article I recommended?

http://www.fritzpet.com/article_turbo_pg1.htm

Did you think that author's suggestions for caring for the nitrifying bacteria apply to marine tanks?


2) I just read the info on your website.

Here are a few questions:

what does a Kati-Ani unit do and how important is it? Is it something one could go without?
And if indispensable, where can one find it? I don't recall seeing nothing like that in Drs Foster catalog, although I've 'read' it for 3 days straight ;-)

2) Reg. water changes: I live in a dorm and can't hook anything to a sink when I do my water changes. I mix my salt in a 5-gal water bottle, from those that come with the water fountain machines for businesses. I let time do the aeration. (Is this enough?) Another issue I have is that when it comes to pouring the new water into the tank, I have hard time pouring GENTLY. I have to lift up a heavy 3 or 5 gal bottle and pour from high up. I am a tiny woman and can barely hold the bottle. So the water falls rather hard on the tank. Does the splash hurt the fish?
I tried to put a dish or small bucket in the tank and pour over it but sometimes the bucket strays away and falls over the LR etc. You say on your website that you use a Mag-Drive pump to pump the new water back in when you do a water change. How exactly do you do that, and is it feasible in my situation?

3) Now that I got started on water changes, I observe more precipitate in the mix lately - it has stuck to the bottom of the plastic bottle, impossible to remove. One day I tried to scrub it out, unsuccessfully. Now I find floating pieces in the mix - I do not know if they have broken off the old precipitate stuck to the bottom, or I am getting NEW precipitate, due to the fact that my salt is moist. The salt got clumped a bit after I started keeping smallt portions of it in a ziplock, which didn't close properly because it was full). Can I still use this salt?

3) "Lastly, I wanted to give you one more tip from a maintenance guy. I use a magnet cleaner on my tank every few days. This keeps the buildup to a minimum by removing algae before it has a chance to take hold. It only takes a minute, but it saves a lot of hard scraping of coralline algae later."

Do you mean that you use the magnet cleaner on the glass?

Thank you for being here, Depth

 

[Depth]

Steven,

me again. First of all, apologies for the question bombardment from my side. I haven't been on the forum for a few days but I was doing my homework in the meantime - reading and researching stuff. Questions have accumulated and now pour over you all at once...
I hope you'll have the patience to live through my comeback! ;-)
*
I read your article on Quarantine, and saw the picture of your light fixtures. What exactly fixtures and bulbs do you use on your QT? I have a 26 gall bow, 24" wide, and my fixture is built for a single 18" , 15 W fluorescent bulb. I spoke with Drs Foster, and they told me I couldn't do much better than that.
Also, I only have 1 fish now - the watchman goby. I gave the damsels away, and decided on a more aggressive setup - a flame hawkfish, a coral beauty, and perhaps something yellow, haven't decided what yet. My tank is too small for a yellow tang, and the LFS person suggested a lemonpeel angel since it was very different from the Coral Beauty. I am suspicious to the idea - have you heard of people keeping together these two angels in particular?

So I am thinking to buy all 3 fish at once and QT them together for a month (quicker, and I read, they will get along better if they came all at once).

Yesterday I moved the watchman goby to my newly set 20 gal QT. He is pretty uncomfortable there. As a bottom dweller, it is hard for him to move on the glass. He darts about and swims up high to research the environment (which he never does).
As I am looking at him in pain, I doubt my 3 new additions could spend a month in a 20 gal QT, together with goby. What do you think? Can I do at least 2, or should I do them one by one?

Also: If I would go with aggressive setup, I'll have to part with all my cleaners (cleaner shrimp, a snail and a hermit crab). I know the flame hawkfish will eat them. I am flexible to try a more peaceful setup as well but can't find fishes big enough (I want good-size fishes, 3-4 inch), attractive and good for a small tank like mine. I am in love with wrasses but they would eat my shrimp too.
Can you pull from the top of your head a possible combination that you've seen to work for others with my size tank? (with fish larger than damsels ;-)


Grateful as always, Depth

Deeply in thought, Depth

 

[Depth]

I guess both signatures are very, very true.

 

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7707809#post7707809 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aly6764
Steven Pro or Freed,
Thanks for the reply, My 24 G does have some live rock in it. The four fish I have left Are the Naso 5 inches, Sailfin 5 inches, the mystery wrasse 3 inches, and an eyelash blenny 3 inches. Will the rock be a problem for QT?

That seems like too many/too large of fish for a 24. And yes, the liverock is going to be a problem with any treatments.

 

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7712560#post7712560 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishtk75
You mean the fourm at North Central PA Aquarium Reef Society
I just signed up.
Also I stared a refuge on the 120 as you said to and read your 55 setup.

They also have a club which has meetings from time to time. Usually big frag swaps and other large events. A nice bunch of guys. I have attended a few of their things.

 

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7714650#post7714650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Depth
Steven,

Did you manage to read the article I recommended?

http://www.fritzpet.com/article_turbo_pg1.htm

Did you think that author's suggestions for caring for the nitrifying bacteria apply to marine tanks?

I did read it and would have liked to see mor to completely convince me, but most of the recommendations were correct. Things like turning off the UV for instance.

 

[Steven Pro]

A Kati-Ani is a separate resin deionization unit. It is basically a rechargable water purifier and takes the place of the RO/DI units most people use.

I would add an air pump and airstone to the water to help mix your new salt water before use.

Splash does not hurt the fish, but it can move the sand all over and make a mess.

You should be able to still use that salt.

Yes, I usually use a magnet cleaner on my tank's glass every few days to keep things neat.

For fish, I just use the standard 20 watt normal output lamp that the tank came with. When I do corals, I use the two 55 watt PC lamps.

I would not mix the two angels.

I would add the fish one at a time with at least a month in between.

 

[Freed]

I agree with Steve. As for my recommendation on the 4 fish in the QT, if that's the biggest QT you have then that's all you can do. Yes, I agree with Steve on this as well for being too many in that size QT for that big of fish.

 

[Depth]

Steven,

Thank you for your time!
Here is where I am at the moment:

From your description of the Kati-Ani unit it seems like it could take the place of RO unit in my dorm. Unless it's very big... Now, the question remains, where it can be found?
*
The rule about one fish per month - what is the reasoning behind it?
*
I kept reading your stuff. First time I hear of "seeding" sand with copepods etc. But since I'd like to keep an angel (at least one;-), I guess I'd have to populate my LR with these creatures first....
How do I do that? Never heard of copepods, antipods or other similar buggers for sale
Also, tried to find the Southdown sand from Home Depot you recommended - without any luck. I currently have a mixture of the sand the person who sold me the tank gave me (???) and Aragonite Reef sand that I bought.
I am about to buy some more sand - what should I buy? (I plan on getting a starfish as soon as I learn a little more about them)

And a general Angel question: Besides the copepods, what else does one need to know in order to be able to keep a coral beauty?
My LFS person told me I need a month or so more "experience" but he is not being specific, so I don't know if I am gathering the experience as I go or it is just time passing...
What is the angel secret? I am kinda intimidated...

 

[Steven Pro]

Yes, the Kati-Ani unit can take the place of a RO. Contact ktani here on ReefCentral. His real name is Kip Tani. He is the US importer of the Kati-Ani units now.

One fish per month allows the beneficial bacteria time to increase in population to account for the increase in bioload (ie more fish). Adding fish too quickly or too many at one time can cause deadly ammonia problems.

Many "pods" (amphipods, copepods, and mysis shrimp) come from the liverock. They are good hitchhikers.

Southdown sand is not available everywhere. It is actually getting harder and harder to find now. Any sugar-size aragonite sand will do. Southdown is just much cheaper than the standard packaged stuff.

Angelfish don't just eat copepods. They eat some, but they also eat a lot of algae.

 

[Depth]

I see. So sand should be smaller-grained. Unfortunately, I already have 20 some pounds of mid-sized aragonite in the tank. It will be a mumbo-jumbo...
*
I have heard that every time you add new sand the tank will cycle. There is nobody in the main tank right now, and so it is the perfect moment to do it. But I've read that one should not cycle when mature fully cycled live rock is present (cycling could kill live rock). So how should I add the sand - little by little? Keep it in a water bucket?
*
The filter I am using on my QT is the filter from my main tank, which is used to a bioload of 5 fish. It should work for 2 larger fishies for a month.
*
Angelfish: I don't have almost any algae. (Is it ok to give vegi diet instead?). People have scared me with the difficulty of having angelfish without telling what exactly the difficulty consist of.
Should I brave up and get the coral beauty?
*

 

[Steven Pro]

I am sorry, but why is it that you want to add more sand?

There are some fishes which are very hardy and frankly difficult to kill. Angelfish don't fall into that catagory.

Do you have Michael Paletta's The New Marine Aquarium? It is an excellent book for beginners.