Quarantine Tank Screw Up

[squid row]

I have an ick issue in my display tank, so I set up what I thought was a QT

I had a 20 gallon tank with a HOB Marineland filter with carbon removed, heater and lights.

Added cupramine after making sure water parameters matched my DT

Moved a flame angel with minimal signs of ick and showing no stress into the QT and after a day it as on its side and dying.

Other than showing a couple of spots on its tail it was behaving normally in the DT but I thought moving into quarantine would be a good thing. In the end I ended up killing it.

What did I do wrong or what steps did I miss?

I am going to take the QT down and start over so any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance

 

[Sk8r]

Not all species tolerate copper. Sorry to say. Look up TTM (tank transfer). Personally, I just don't use copper. I've had terrible luck with it. TTM requires a second qt, and you just keep moving fish to the other tank, cleaning the first one, moving again, etc. I think the protocol is somewhere in the Fish Disease forum. If not, I'll find it for you.

 

[HumbleFish]

How fast did you raise the copper level? Taking 4-5 days to reach full therapeutic oftentimes makes a big difference vs. 48 hours as per Seachem's directions.

 

[hkgar]

Sadly Angels do not handle copper well. Use TTM, as mentioned, to treat all new fish. I use two 5 gallon tanks and treat wit Prazi Pro on the 2nd and 4th transfers.

 

[squid row]

How fast did you raise the copper level? Taking 4-5 days to reach full therapeutic oftentimes makes a big difference vs. 48 hours as per Seachem's directions.

I followed the directions on the bottle:
20 drops per 10.5 gallons on first day

How can I find out which fish tolerate Cupramine?

The ick is spreading in my DT despite treating with KickIch and now treating with Medic

 

[HumbleFish]

I followed the directions on the bottle:
20 drops per 10.5 gallons on first day

How can I find out which fish tolerate Cupramine?

The ick is spreading in my DT despite treating with KickIch and now treating with Medic

If you list out all of your fish, I can tell you which ones are copper sensitive IME.

 

[squid row]

If you list out all of your fish, I can tell you which ones are copper sensitive IME.

Thanks!

Blue Hippo Tang
Ocellarus Clown
Six Line Wrasse
Yellow Wrasse
Firefish
Blue Chromis

I have almost zero chance of catching any of them, but just finished emptying out and resetting up the 20 gallon for quarantine.

One item I realize now that I missed was airflow.... Got an old air pump in the garage that I will add

 

[Sk8r]

Aeration while medicating is really important. But don't put bubbles where fish are forced to swim in them. Copper can be hard on tangs, fire clowns, not sure about the others.

 

[HumbleFish]

Blue Hippo Tang
Ocellarus Clown
Six Line Wrasse
Yellow Wrasse
Firefish
Blue Chromis

All of those fish are good candidates for copper IME. However, I use Copper Power instead of Cupramine. I also recommend using this Hanna checker for more accurate testing: https://www.hannainst.com/hi702-copper-hr.html

When using Copper Power: You can drop the fish in at 1.0ppm, and over a period of a week gradually raise the Cu level to 2.0ppm. Leave it there for 30 days, testing often.

 

[RBU1]

What are you using in the QT to help with ammonia? Is the tank fully cycled?


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[101010]

All my attempts to treat my fish in qt had ended in failure and at times catching small fish in dt and transferring it to qt is almost impossible. So I have started feeding them with food soaked in chloroquine and found it very effective, haven't seen any problems with invertebrates as of now.

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[Sk8r]

Let me interject here, since that word has come up: THIS chloroquine is not what they were talking about re CORVID-19. Somebody didn't know that, got into his fish remedies, ingested it, and died. Chloroquine is not a brand name: it's a chemical name. You know there's a difference between sodium chloride and sodium bicarbonate. One is salt, the other is baking soda. There's also sodium azide, which is lethal even in tiny doses. Remember this in all your handling of fish meds. Not for human consumption.

 

[ThRoewer]

Let me interject here, since that word has come up: THIS chloroquine is not what they were talking about re CORVID-19. Somebody didn't know that, got into his fish remedies, ingested it, and died. Chloroquine is not a brand name: it's a chemical name. You know there's a difference between sodium chloride and sodium bicarbonate. One is salt, the other is baking soda. There's also sodium azide, which is lethal even in tiny doses. Remember this in all your handling of fish meds. Not for human consumption.

Well, in this case it is the same substance. And a number of reefers actually use the human medication for their fish. I used for example human use antibiotics to treat sick anemones.
The issue with the aquarium use chloroquine phosphate is that it is usually a loose powder of undetermined purity. And getting the dosage wrong is what gets you into the ICU or morgue, not the (possible) impurities. Getting the dosage wrong was how that guy in AZ cured himself from the ailment know as "life"....

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ED: SK8R: The chloroquine used in the CORVID-19 trial is hydroxychloroquine, not chloroquine phosphate.

 

[HumbleFish]

Getting the dosage wrong was how that guy in AZ cured himself from the ailment know as "life"....

Or if it truly was a liquid "pond cleaner" as has been suggested... some other chemical found therein might have killed him. Everything I have read about the incident lacked specific information. I, for one, would like to know what "pond cleaner" contains chloroquine and for what purpose. The only thing I can come up with is because chloroquine is a very strong algaecide.

 

[squid row]

Thanks for the tips. I used water that was in my mixing can (in other words the water i made for water changes) to set up the QT tank

Let it stand for a couple of days and added aeration

Was able to catch the two fish in my tank that are visibly showing signs of ick, the blue hippo tang and my clownfish.

Transferred them both to the QT last night after an extended acclimation period and added a lower dose of Cupramine than the bottle suggested (approx. 75%)

Today both appear to be doing fine. Tang is hiding but is eating. Clown is sucking in food as fast as I put it in!

Visibly signs of infection are down on both so i am hopeful!

Next question... how long do I treat them in this tank after visible signs of ick are gone before returning to my DT?

Keeping in mind that my DT still has three fish in it that I can not catch (Blue Chromis, yellow wrasse, six line wrasse)

 

[HumbleFish]

Next question... how long do I treat them in this tank after visible signs of ick are gone before returning to my DT?

Keeping in mind that my DT still has three fish in it that I can not catch (Blue Chromis, yellow wrasse, six line wrasse)

Raise the Cu level to full therapeutic (0.5 ppm for Cupramine), and treat for 30 days.

However, keep in mind the disease will always be active in the DT until all fish are caught, treated, and the DT itself is left fallow (fishless) for 76 days.

 

[billdogg]

raise the cu level to full therapeutic (0.5 ppm for cupramine), and treat for 30 days.

however, keep in mind the disease will always be active in the dt until all fish are caught, treated, and the dt itself is left fallow (fishless) for 76 days.

x 1000

 

[squid row]

Just an update... I have caught all of my fish except the 6 line wrasse. Will have to take down the tank to catch him so he is staying in the DT

Yellow wrasse died so now in QT is the clown, blue hippo and blue chromis.

Got a hanna copper checker and have adjusted the QT and it now stands at 0.5 PPM

Fish are healthy looking, no signs of ick and are all eating very aggressively.

Now the bad news.. After checking one time with the hanna checker, it quit working. Shows bad battery error. I have changed out the battery four times and keep getting the error so hopefully they will exchange it.

Thank you everyone for the great advice. I really appreciate it

 

[101010]

Just an update... I have caught all of my fish except the 6 line wrasse. Will have to take down the tank to catch him so he is staying in the DT

Yellow wrasse died so now in QT is the clown, blue hippo and blue chromis.

Got a hanna copper checker and have adjusted the QT and it now stands at 0.5 PPM

Fish are healthy looking, no signs of ick and are all eating very aggressively.

Now the bad news.. After checking one time with the hanna checker, it quit working. Shows bad battery error. I have changed out the battery four times and keep getting the error so hopefully they will exchange it.

Thank you everyone for the great advice. I really appreciate it

Leaving even one fish will defy the purpose of quarantining all others. Idea fish trap to catch that wrasse and let the tank go through the fallow period of 72 days.

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[squid row]

Another update... I think I have misdiagnosed ick when it may be velvet.

Three fish have been in QT for a month now and are being treated with curpramine. Copper is .52 on the Hannah checker device.

Was thinking of returning them to the DT when noticed the blue tang (always the culprit) had some more pronounced white spots but they appeared to be below the skin somewhat. Further inspection and it looks like a whitish sheen.

The clown and chromis appear healthy

What should I do now?