Question about Green Mandarin Dragonet

TheFluffyInjun

New member
Hiya,

I was hoping for some advice, I have a Fluval Spec V (5 gal). I really love the Green Mandarin Dragonet. It's definitely my favorite! If I can find one that will take frozen do you think I could keep him in my Nano? Current Aquatic life is: Astrea, Trochus, Margarita, Zebra Herm, Fighting Conch, and Royal Gramma. I have some coral (GSP, Toadstool, xenia, Kenya, couple Zoa polyps). Parameters are WNL.

Thanks!
 
They are such a slow eater, it can be hard to train one in a tank with more aggressive eaters. If you get one, I would have a good backup plan in case it won't take frozen food in your tank.. so someone with a healthy pod population that would be willing to take him. Also, you can start up a small tank with only macro algae and pods and culture them in there, just removing some of the algae and shaking off the pods into your 5 gallon.
 
In my opinion, a 5 gallon tank is too small for any fish, especially a royal gramma, let alone a royal gramma and a mandarin. A royal gramma should have 30 gallons. Now, I'm going to assume that you have a larger tank you are going to put the royal gramma in soon. As for the mandarin, If you can get him eating frozen, it doesn't have the nutritional value its suggested diet of pods has, and the minuscule amount of pods in a 5 gallon tank, the mandarin could probably clean out in minutes. In my opinion the percentage of success of keeping a mandarin in any tank is small, and the chance of keeping one in a tank of 5 gallons, with another fish, is near 0. I don't think its fair to the fish or humane, so in my opinion it should not be done, but, the choice is ultimately up to you.
 
I have one that eats frozen food in my Biocube 29. I would not consider putting it in a tank even slightly smaller. They need lots of room to roam and rock caves (which I have) to hide in.
 
Even a Mandarin who eats frozen still eats on a constant basis. There's no way beyond continually adding pods(which will get insanely expensive) to keep a tank that small fully stocked with enough food. Beyond it's feeding the tank IMO is too small for anything besides maybe a small goby and even that is pushing it. I did have a green dragonette in my nuvo16, he was trained on frozen prepared and still depleted the pod population quickly AND it was eating all types of other things(various worms and critters in the tank). Kept it for probably close to 6 months it was fairly plump but when I broke the tank down he had to go as well.
 
I upgraded to a 90g to keep mandarins.... I think that might be the smallest tank capable of keeping them long term. I've had two for about 2 years now. They eat constantly all day long.
 
If ur looking for a mandarin that does not depend on copepods and would eat either frozen or pellets just get with your LFS and request that they order u a ORA Green Mandarin. That would be your best bet. I have the regular mandarin in my tank but I also have a large population of copepods and amphiopods. I seeded my tank 8 months prior to wanting to introduce one of these guys. So ORA Mandarin is your solid way to go and cost wise is not too bad compare to you trying to train a wild mandarin to eat frozen and risk of it dying.
 
I had an ORA one in my 34g for a while and while he did eat when I spot fed him, it still wasn't enough over time.

Within 3 months he got so skinny and eventually was a meal for my CUC.
 
I have one that eats frozen food in my Biocube 29. I would not consider putting it in a tank even slightly smaller. They need lots of room to roam and rock caves (which I have) to hide in.

I have a BC29 too and want one. Did you train him to eat frozen?
 
guys please dont do it. i have tried twice in 38 gal tank, second one even ate frozen.
thing about these guys are they eat all day every day.
 
I would not recommend in a 5 gallon at all, but I have read about some rather interesting ways to keep a mandarin in a smaller aquarium. It kind of depends how badly you want a mandarin and how much trouble you are willing to go through to keep it healthy and happy.

Here is what i have learned:
Their digestive tract is basically a straight shot. They don't take a long time to digest their food, and they very limited means of storing energy, they need a constant food supply. In nature they feed ALL DAY LONG. Honestly this is to some extent true of a lot of aquarium fish, but most are not as negatively affected as mandarins, nor is their diet so specific.

There is a danger with ones captive raised that will eat pellet or frozen food, that they will stop hunting all together, so that if you can't feed with frozen often enough, they will still be deprived of food a large portion of the day, which is unhealthy for them. They seem to tend towards being exclusive to a food type, and it will be luck of the draw whether you get one that may both hunt and accept prepared foods also. So eating frozen or pellet is not necessarily a guarantee of a healthy happy mandarin. Also as some have pointed out, the nutrients are different between frozen foods and live copepods, i don't know if i would consider them inferior like some have said, it's just different than the foods they eat by default.

You have to have structures in the aquarium that can allow copepods to reproduce without being hunted to extinction by the mandarin. In a small aquarium they can easily eat them all and leave pretty much none to reproduce. Some people construct pod hotels with an assortment of natural and unnatural materials, where the goal is simply to allow the pods to seek shelter and multiply within a space the mandarin can't get to. You will likely need a number of these structures, however you choose to create them.

You need a steady supply of fresh copepods. They will reproduce in a refugium and are safe from the mandarin hunting them there. I would say you need a rather large refugium compared to the display size, and i feel that from research I can safely say that hob refugiums that just flow directly from the compartment with the algae and live rock over into the aquarium, present the greatest chance of getting a steady stream of life pods into the aquarium. I would suggest having as much hob refugium as possible, as well as a refugium in a sump. And then another refugium that runs into that refugium, and a refugium to add onto the refugium with the refugium in it. Refugium refugium refugium.....refugium....

You will probably need to continually add copepods. For one thing, if you never introduce new ones, i'm just guessing that there could be some cross eyed, 6 toed inbred copepods in your system. Lack of genetic diversity is certainly not good for the copepod population. Obviously there is also the benefit of keeping the population bumped up. More than likely you will need to actually culture copepods to keep things affordable. You can start a copepod culture by buying a bottle of live copepods, and some bottles of phytoplankton, and adding a light source for photosynthesis(or sticking the container in a greenhouse) with i guess some minor water agitation, probably an airstone is enough. The only real way to get the copepods out of the water I think though is to put structures in the culture tank that the copepods will infest, and then you transfer those into your refugiums and display to spread out from there.

There are possibly some interesting options for using dosing pumps on a timer to pump water with phyto and copepods into the display tank at regular intervals, just little spurts all day, to keep introducing some live copepods. Problem is I think only copepod larvae swim in the water column, the adults that the mandarin will eat I think stick to rocks and other structures pretty exclusively. The moving of a pod hotel back and forth is probably the best way to ensure transfer.

Brine shrimp feeder. I can't remember their name, but one person came up with this idea and posted it on these forums some place. You basically have to create an underwater feeding station where brine shrimp can slowly escape, and fish will come eat the ones that was in the process of escaping, and mandarins have been observed to eat them. The design they tried was to cut out the center of the lid of a flat round container, then put some sort of mesh over the hole in the lid, just fine enough to make it a slow process for baby brine shrimp to wiggle through. They epoxied a hard airline tube into the flat round container that goes up to the surface of the aquarium and then has a funnel inserted or epoxied to it. They pour in live baby brine shrimp and it takes hours for all of them to travel down the funnel and escape the mesh, and the mandarin will pick at it for hours. This of course requires hatching and culturing baby brine shrimp and seining out the babies to dump in the funnel.

That's all i can think of for now.
 
I have a BC29 too and want one. Did you train him to eat frozen?

I purchased the Mandarin at Petco and it was so skinny it looked like it was going to die. Figured I would give it a better chance. I started feeding it frozen copepods and R.O.E. It ate that no problem.

I also feed everything else in my tanks a combo of blood worms, R.O.E., brine shrimp and mysis. A month ago or so I saw the Mandarin eat a blood worm. After watching more closely, I saw it eat the brine shrimp as well. So I just feed it that now. No more frozen copepods.

Here's the trick with spot feeding. I started by turning the flow off and feeding for 5 minutes. I kept upping that until I was doing it for 20 minutes everyday. Then she really started getting fat. It is a pain, but my daughter and I love this fish. So I do it...
 
Forgot to mention, I have about as much live rock as you can have in a tank this size and I occasionally rotate a rock or 2 from another tank with a large pod population. As others have mentioned, they eat all day. No way a 29 gallon tank could sustain one without supplemental feeding though. Long term, I will be getting a larger tank. I have several things that will outgrow the Biocube eventually.
 
I purchased the Mandarin at Petco and it was so skinny it looked like it was going to die. Figured I would give it a better chance. I started feeding it frozen copepods and R.O.E. It ate that no problem.

I also feed everything else in my tanks a combo of blood worms, R.O.E., brine shrimp and mysis. A month ago or so I saw the Mandarin eat a blood worm. After watching more closely, I saw it eat the brine shrimp as well. So I just feed it that now. No more frozen copepods.

Here's the trick with spot feeding. I started by turning the flow off and feeding for 5 minutes. I kept upping that until I was doing it for 20 minutes everyday. Then she really started getting fat. It is a pain, but my daughter and I love this fish. So I do it...

This really does work.

you can also use a glass salt shaker to train your fish to eat.
you buy a glass salt shaker, put the food in there. insert into tank.
the entrance will be big enough for the mandarin but not the other fish.
after about a week they will dart to the food.

in a small tank like others have said. you will need to feed them often.
i had a pair in a 20g - fed them 3 times a day. Mine did great for 2 years.
 
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