Question

[Btownexpress]

Can i use a foam pad from a GFO reactor? i assumer this has good bacteria on it.

I had to setup an emergency QT tank after losing a blue tang and three wrasse fish.
I would like to start a copper treatment asap, but I'm worried about the ammonia spiking. I'm doing 25% water changes everyday.

i have all the fish in there except for my lawnmower blenny, i haven't been able to catch it yet.

Thanks in advance,
jps

 

[Dmorty217]

sounds like it will work but not sure what kind of "foam" your referring to

 

[Btownexpress]

Its a white foam that holds the Carbon in place, i bought the reactor from BRS.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Can i use a foam pad from a GFO reactor? i assumer this has good bacteria on it.

I had to setup an emergency QT tank after losing a blue tang and three wrasse fish.
I would like to start a copper treatment asap, but I'm worried about the ammonia spiking. I'm doing 25% water changes everyday.

i have all the fish in there except for my lawnmower blenny, i haven't been able to catch it yet.

Thanks in advance,
jps

The foam pad will have some bacteria but whether there are enough is the question. What kind of bioload would this sponge be expected to support?

If there is not enough, then doing 25% WC each day is likely insufficient. Any poop or uneaten food cannot be allowed to accumulate and decay to yield ammonia. Often 100% wc with livestock transfer is needed.

Having some bacteria is not the same as having enough.

Guessing that there is enough is not the same has knowing there is enough, by deliberate cycling the medium for QT in advance with enough ammonia to feed the bacteria several weeks before QT.

 

[Btownexpress]

One Achilies Tang
One Powder blue
One blue tang
2 clowns
One yellow eye tang
One diamond gobie
One yellow gobie
One fire fish

All fish are eating, but the Powder and Achilies are not getting along right now.

And I'm worried about the Kolle tang eating,

Im testing twice a day, i will give an update shortly.

jps

 

[wooden_reefer]

One Achilies Tang
One Powder blue
One blue tang
2 clowns
One yellow eye tang
One diamond gobie
One yellow gobie
One fire fish

All fish are eating, but the Powder and Achilies are not getting along right now.

And I'm worried about the Kolle tang eating,

Im testing twice a day, i will give an update shortly.

jps

Why would you think that a sponge in DT can support all these fish?

 

[Btownexpress]

I don't think that, or know that, hence the question. I somehow have ich in my DT and had to move the fish to the QT tank. Im thinking of anything possible to keep the ammonia down. Thats why people come to these forums to post questions.

Ammonia is now at 2 ppm, going to do a 50% water change in a bit.

 

[Nina51]

Is your qt big enough so you could use a piece of egg crate to section it off to keep the Achilles and Powder separated?

 

[wooden_reefer]

I don't think that, or know that, hence the question. I somehow have ich in my DT and had to move the fish to the QT tank. Im thinking of anything possible to keep the ammonia down. Thats why people come to these forums to post questions.

Ammonia is now at 2 ppm, going to do a 50% water change in a bit.

Your present situation is unlikely to allow you to eradicate ich.

With that many fish, having enough and enough deliberately cycled medium is rather necessary. It take 10-12 weeks to allow the DT to fallow out. Do you really plan to do this for 12 weeks?

You can treat now to prevent the fish from dying from ich.

You then at once ASAP start a cycle in a separate container to support the fish. Ideally such a cycled should be about 3-4 weeks.

Stage one is to prevent the fish from dying from ich or permanently damaged by high ammonia and little food.

Stage two is eradication with the aid of supporting your fish with well-cycled medium, enough of it.

 

[Btownexpress]

Your present situation is unlikely to allow you to eradicate ich.

With that many fish, having enough and enough deliberately cycled medium is rather necessary. It take 10-12 weeks to allow the DT to fallow out. Do you really plan to do this for 12 weeks? If i have to, what other option do i have, put them back in the DT and wait 12 weeks?

You can treat now to prevent the fish from dying from ich.
I have Cupermine on hand, but that takes 6 weeks. Should i use something else?

You then at once ASAP start a cycle in a separate container to support the fish. Ideally such a cycled should be about 3-4 weeks.

Stage one is to prevent the fish from dying from ich or permanently damaged by high ammonia and little food.So put them back in the DT?

Stage two is eradication with the aid of supporting your fish with well-cycled medium, enough of it.

Cycle the QT tank?

 

[wooden_reefer]

If you treat at once ich seldom kills.

For the next 3-4 weeks, you could treat and then return fish to ich infested DT and watch and may have to repeat once (or twice) for the next 3-4 weeks.

Or you can treat ich to prevent death and then put fish in container without drug and use Prime or Amquel.

You have to find a way to support your fish and treat ich to the extent of the fish not dying, and little ammonia and eating well.

What you should not do is to battle ammonia and little food for 12 weeks in an attempt to eradicate ich.


Many people say cycle the QT, but a better phrase is to cycle the medium intended for QT.

You can quickly cycle medium in a separate container and then use after the cycle, after rinsing the medium with QT water.

You can try half-cycling the medium. Since ammonia is much more toxic than nitrite, you can use the medium as soon as nitrite has peaked but has not dropped. If you do so, you must get rid of the accmulated nitrite by rinsing the (half) cycled medium with QT water. Slowly generating nitrite is not much harmful, but I will avoid accumulated nitrite during cycling.

 

[firemountain]

I run a simple 30g permanent QT tank, with a bare bottom, and a HOB filter, and a heater. I keep a shrimp and crab in to keep the bio going. I keep an extra HUGE sponge in the tank as well, cut into blocks for added bio. When I did the TTM for ich prevention, I just took a seeded sponge chunk out and added to my 10g with an air stone and heater. With housing 2 fish during TTM with my seeded sponge I didn't see any ammonia when I tested. I keep Prime on hand to dose in case of an emergency like yours, when ammonia could be present.

I guess my point is that I like running a big enough permanent QT tank to house enough fish from my DT in an emergency. Jus trying to help out....hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I run a simple 30g permanent QT tank, with a bare bottom, and a HOB filter, and a heater. I keep a shrimp and crab in to keep the bio going. I keep an extra HUGE sponge in the tank as well, cut into blocks for added bio. When I did the TTM for ich prevention, I just took a seeded sponge chunk out and added to my 10g with an air stone and heater. With housing 2 fish during TTM with my seeded sponge I didn't see any ammonia when I tested. I keep Prime on hand to dose in case of an emergency like yours, when ammonia could be present.

I guess my point is that I like running a big enough permanent QT tank to house enough fish from my DT in an emergency. Jus trying to help out....hope this helps. Good luck.

I suppose you remove them during QT for fish. Then at least two animals need to suffer a little during QT.

Even so, the bioload during QT is limited to the bioload of the two animals, otherwise there will be mini or not so mini cycling during QT session.

Using livestock to maintain a biological medium is not desirable or necessary.

Just use a source of ammonia 10 times or more than the greatest possible bioload during QT once every 2 weeks. Nitrification bacteria do not die quickly due to lack of ammonia intermittently.

I like my medium compact and portable for several reasons; a less important one is to be able to recharge it economically in a small amount of water and rinse with target tank water before use. This way I don't age the tank water unnecessarily.

 

[tylersarah]

I have successfully used BioSpira in a 20 gal QT for a 3-4" fish. I had no ammonia spike and a minuscule nitrite spike, barely even registered on the low range spectrum.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I have successfully used BioSpira in a 20 gal QT for a 3-4" fish. I had no ammonia spike and a minuscule nitrite spike, barely even registered on the low range spectrum.

IME there is no need to spend any money to buy packaged bacteria.

Also, when you buy bacteria, you get a certain amount for a certain application.

When you grow bacteria, you can have all that you will ever need for any application.

It is advantagous to have grossly more bacteria than needed under normal condition, because condition can be unusual. If a drug depresses nitrification by 90%, then having grossly more than usual requirement is advantagous.

I find cycling in advance extremely easy and I have done so automatically with similar medium and setup over and over again for decades.

It is also moot because I always test out a medium with a pulse of ammonia if I ever have doubt about its capacity to process ammonia.

 

[firemountain]

I suppose you remove them during QT for fish. Then at least two animals need to suffer a little during QT.

Even so, the bioload during QT is limited to the bioload of the two animals, otherwise there will be mini or not so mini cycling during QT session.

Using livestock to maintain a biological medium is not desirable or necessary.

Just use a source of ammonia 10 times or more than the greatest possible bioload during QT once every 2 weeks. Nitrification bacteria do not die quickly due to lack of ammonia intermittently.

I like my medium compact and portable for several reasons; a less important one is to be able to recharge it economically in a small amount of water and rinse with target tank water before use. This way I don't age the tank water unnecessarily.

I forgot to mention that I have 3 pieces of live rock that I took from DT a while back, when I began to cycle the QT initially. It will remain in there forever. I will feed my inverts a little heavy a few days before to kick up the ammonia before I add the new livestock to the QT tank. I also keep an ammonia badge in the tank and test regularly. If I get a slight reading, then I will dose some prime. Would you say that this game plan is sufficient?

 

[wooden_reefer]

Live rock is a good source of natural food for fish that are slow to take strange food.

Otherwise, rock in general is not a good medium of filtration for QT because it is too bulky.

Qt tank using rock has to be rather permanent.

Portable and compact medium for QT is much more convenient.

 

[tylersarah]

I keep two of these in my sump for QT emergencies:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=23702

I used BioSpira in lieu of the sponge the time my tank was iched. How my main tank acquired ich is another story...kind of a mystery. Had one fish in the tank, nothing new for over 8 months and everything prior to that, even inverts were QT'd for 12 wks. The fish's immune system was compromised and he came down with small infection after infection, then ich.

 

[wooden_reefer]

The whole idea of keeping cycled medium in DT sump to be used in QT should be understood.

Doing so has value, and sometimes works.

1. Admittedly there is the fudge factor of feeding a bit more while the medium is in DT and a little less while the medium has been taken out for use in QT.

2. If the intended bioload is very much smaller than the bioload in DT, then the chance is greater that this will work. To QT a small goby when the DT has ten medium sized fish would work using this method.

The main thrust will always be that bacteria population is at equilbrium with the bioload in the DT. There is always a chance for mini-cycling in DT and not having enough bacteria for QT. When you raid the DT you are risking the new tank schdrome.

A lot of SOS posts are due to this misunderstanding that leads to insufficient bacteria in QT.

Cycling the medium for QT separately and deliberately is always more certain and just better resulting in great numbers of bacteria enough for all situations.

A hybrid approach is also possible.

You can play the fudge factor of feeding differently before and after the medium has been taken out; then you can simply enhance the medium taken out with just one pulse of ammonia in a separate container. This augmentation can take as little as 10 days.