Questions for moderators about fishing with cyanide
- Thread starter yorkfire
- Start date
Steven Pro
New member
Yep, it is called a literature review.
GreshamH,
You wrote:
"MS222 is fine by itself, but, they have to use rubbing alchohol or bleach for the carrying agent. MS222 (quin)"
I just wanted to clarify that you have two chemicals confused:
MS-222 (tricaine methanesulfonate) is soluble in water to 11%, no carrying agent is required. The reason it isn't used to collect fish in remote areas is the cost ($120us for 100 g).
You wrote "quin" - I think you are refering to a different compound, quinaldine (usually a sulfate form). This is NOT soluble in water (or bleach either!). I suppose it is soluble in isopropanol (rubbing alcohol), but vodka (or other local high proof spirit) is what everyone uses. The carrier is NOT toxic, but quinaldine itself has some minor toxicity issues, plus it is not easy to acquire.
The bleach issue is that divers sometimes use bleach by itself to drive fish out of holes.
Jay Hemdal
You wrote:
"MS222 is fine by itself, but, they have to use rubbing alchohol or bleach for the carrying agent. MS222 (quin)"
I just wanted to clarify that you have two chemicals confused:
MS-222 (tricaine methanesulfonate) is soluble in water to 11%, no carrying agent is required. The reason it isn't used to collect fish in remote areas is the cost ($120us for 100 g).
You wrote "quin" - I think you are refering to a different compound, quinaldine (usually a sulfate form). This is NOT soluble in water (or bleach either!). I suppose it is soluble in isopropanol (rubbing alcohol), but vodka (or other local high proof spirit) is what everyone uses. The carrier is NOT toxic, but quinaldine itself has some minor toxicity issues, plus it is not easy to acquire.
The bleach issue is that divers sometimes use bleach by itself to drive fish out of holes.
Jay Hemdal
Oops, good catch, thanks Jay.
Ispropanol is what I have pictures of a Florida collector using with his quin. I've heard the vodka one as well, but my pictures are of mounds of bottles of iso and water/squirt bottles.
The reason neither of those (quin/ms222) are used by real fish collectors, is there's no need. Only people that are inept at collecting need it, and I know you know that Jay (after years on the issue).
Ispropanol is what I have pictures of a Florida collector using with his quin. I've heard the vodka one as well, but my pictures are of mounds of bottles of iso and water/squirt bottles.
The reason neither of those (quin/ms222) are used by real fish collectors, is there's no need. Only people that are inept at collecting need it, and I know you know that Jay (after years on the issue).
Hand netting fish is not easy. Look at what we go through trying to net a fish in a glass box, imagine trying to get one in the ocean.
There's at least one reason that people continue to practice cyanide fishing, it's easy. Certainly easier than netting fish, and easier means more fish "caught"
My understanding of the areas where cyanide is used is that there is not a big emphasis put on education. Most people are far more concerned with feeding a family that is barely above starving. Another possibility is something I remember reading somewhere said that fishermen get in a situation where they are always in debt to those that provide them with the cyanide. Much like a loan shark, they continue working to pay for yesterday's allocation of cyanide, but they then owe for the cyanide they used today, to pay for yesterday's.......
I don't know how much fact is there, but it sounds believable.
I do believe that cyanide use is harmful, I believe it explains many, MANY fish deaths in our tanks and I know it's not going to get better on it's own.
There's at least one reason that people continue to practice cyanide fishing, it's easy. Certainly easier than netting fish, and easier means more fish "caught"
My understanding of the areas where cyanide is used is that there is not a big emphasis put on education. Most people are far more concerned with feeding a family that is barely above starving. Another possibility is something I remember reading somewhere said that fishermen get in a situation where they are always in debt to those that provide them with the cyanide. Much like a loan shark, they continue working to pay for yesterday's allocation of cyanide, but they then owe for the cyanide they used today, to pay for yesterday's.......
I don't know how much fact is there, but it sounds believable.
I do believe that cyanide use is harmful, I believe it explains many, MANY fish deaths in our tanks and I know it's not going to get better on it's own.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
The whole world uses nets to collect fish except for the two countries where cyanide use flourished under two 20 year corrupt dictatorships.
In the absence of law and sincere attempts at fishery management, a habit took hold that is still there.
The habit however has nothing to do with catchability or ease of capture. That is not the debate or the issue.
If an aquarist can't figure out how nets are easier, more cost efficient and more reasonable then poison...well, he can't figure out how to fix a transmission from scratch either.
All you have to do is see it done for 5 minutes in Australia, Tonga or the few, new netcaught villages in Bali and the you will see the truth of things.
Nets are cheaper, more efficient and more cost efficient.
If however...there are no nets or netting materials available, then cyanide is easier to use then nothing.
Steve
PS. This has been explained in thousands of posts now. See RDO under industry behind the hobby and the relevant threads here at Reef Central....especially a few threads down called.... "Reforming the worst of our trade...an agenda for reform".
In the absence of law and sincere attempts at fishery management, a habit took hold that is still there.
The habit however has nothing to do with catchability or ease of capture. That is not the debate or the issue.
If an aquarist can't figure out how nets are easier, more cost efficient and more reasonable then poison...well, he can't figure out how to fix a transmission from scratch either.
All you have to do is see it done for 5 minutes in Australia, Tonga or the few, new netcaught villages in Bali and the you will see the truth of things.
Nets are cheaper, more efficient and more cost efficient.
If however...there are no nets or netting materials available, then cyanide is easier to use then nothing.
Steve
PS. This has been explained in thousands of posts now. See RDO under industry behind the hobby and the relevant threads here at Reef Central....especially a few threads down called.... "Reforming the worst of our trade...an agenda for reform".
