Quick help! Is this ich? Flame Angel

[bobcoleman]

I have a flame angel thats been happily swimming around for a quite a while.
Yesterday i did a major water change and its been acting a little shy
I take a look at the angel today and there are faint white dots (very tiny) all over the place. I took a couple of pictures and uploaded them. The pictures exaggerate the dots a lot more than what my eye can see.


Is this ich? I know of different treatments, but which is best for this flame angel?

http://imgur.com/yAXox
http://imgur.com/gCuxL

Further details
Sal: 1.024 measured with a hydrometer
Its about 8-9 months old
Last fish added was this angel, been about 3 months
Not quarantined..

 

[Tin_Whistler]

I can't load those pics for some reason from my work computer...

But if it looks like it has white dots, and it's been three months since you got the fish I'd assume it's ich. I've seen other parasites confused with ich, but if it was those your fish wouldn't be swimming after three months.

You'll want to take all the fish out and treat them all. If one has it, they all do. Meanwhile you'll need to keep your DT empty for 9 weeks to kill off all the ich currently not attached to fish.

 

[bobcoleman]

Sorry about the images, they're pretty big.

What if I'm going on vacation in the next two weeks, what do i do?
Only for a week

 

[sfmacguy]

It does unfortunately look like ich. Do you have a QT set up? if so I would leave them in there for the 9 weeks.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Assuming this is ich, I just can't be 100% sure with pics, all fish in the tank will have to be treated in a HT while the DT stays fishless for 9+ weeks. Flame Angels are one fish that just doesn't tolerate copper. Tank transfer or hypo as the only cures. I'd read the ich stickies above. Sorry, i just don't have any ideas when it comes to vacation. If this is the first time you've seen the spots and nothing has been added for 3 months, this could be something else. (Velvet?) How long has he been like this? Is the fish showing other signs of parasites? Scratching on rock, substrate? Heavy breathing? Hows his appetite? Etc.

 

[Vince272992]

The pics work fine for me and yes I wold say this is ich, set up a QT and put him in there till he gets better and medicate him, if u can't set a QT right now then, lower the salinity in the DT to about 1.020 don't go any lower then 1.019 and higher the temp a little bit, soak ur food in garlic to boost his ammune system, and add some slime coat buffers such as prime to try and prevent Any more ich to get on him and last medicate with some reef safe kordon all natural ich attack, it will not kill the ick on him but it will kill the eggs and floaters in the tank, do this and he should be fine

 

[Ostara]

I would agree that it looks like crypt/ich. While I can't speak for other forms of copper because I've never used them, I have always used Cupramine on flame angels (even full strength for 3-4 weeks) and never had an issue. I wanted to mention this since it is the go-to crypt treatment for many people. I would definitely plan on pulling all of the fish and getting them into quarantine before you go on vacation. I'd add a filter sponge to your sump to seed and try and set up a cycled quarantine for the caretaker while you're gone. Otherwise they'll have to do water changes for you. On the bright side, at least that week-long vacation will help the 9-10 week fallow period go by faster?

 

[Tin_Whistler]

Honestly, I wouldn't want to move those fish and leave them in what I'm assuming would be an uncycled QT tank while gone for a week. An ammonia spike, with nobody there to take care of them, would end far worse than leaving the fish in the DT for another two extra weeks.

 

[snorvich]

The pics work fine for me and yes I wold say this is ich, set up a QT and put him in there till he gets better and medicate him, if u can't set a QT right now then, lower the salinity in the DT to about 1.020 don't go any lower then 1.019 and higher the temp a little bit, soak ur food in garlic to boost his ammune system, and add some slime coat buffers such as prime to try and prevent Any more ich to get on him and last medicate with some reef safe kordon all natural ich attack, it will not kill the ick on him but it will kill the eggs and floaters in the tank, do this and he should be fine

Huh?

 

[bobcoleman]

So there are these white spots on his fins, tails, and eyes as well. Is it still ich?

 

[b0bab0ey]

The pics work fine for me and yes I wold say this is ich, set up a QT and put him in there till he gets better and medicate him, if u can't set a QT right now then, lower the salinity in the DT to about 1.020 don't go any lower then 1.019 and higher the temp a little bit, soak ur food in garlic to boost his ammune system, and add some slime coat buffers such as prime to try and prevent Any more ich to get on him and last medicate with some reef safe kordon all natural ich attack, it will not kill the ick on him but it will kill the eggs and floaters in the tank, do this and he should be fine

Don't forget to swing the silver cross over the tank when you feed the garlic. :spin2:

 

[snorvich]

Don't forget to swing the silver cross over the tank when you feed the garlic. :spin2:

I forgot that. Getting old.

 

[eholceker]

I would try dr g's medicated food with the chloroquine. If the fish is eating it will work. Also looks like the eye is swollen.

 

[Tin_Whistler]

I wouldn't trust that stuff at all in a reef tank.

 

[eholceker]

No issues in a reef tank at all. You feed the fish and do not treat the water. It does not work as well as treating the water as you need to kill the ick once it attaches to the fish.

 

[Tin_Whistler]

My hesitance with that stuff is a combination of not knowing what’ll happen to inverts that eat the food. Shrimp, crabs, bristle worms, and many other critters pick at food left behind by the fish. I’m under the impression they wouldn’t take well to it.

The other issue I have is there’s no way to test for levels of the treatment. If you have a fish that isn’t eating the food, you have a fish that’s infected and continuing the parasites life cycle.

If that stuff works, great. But I haven’t heard too many reviews about it, and I’m not the type of person to use something that I don’t know works. Especially when there’s already other proven methods out there to take care of the problem.

 

[eholceker]

just sharing my experience. My cleaner shrimp, star fish, and hermit crabs all ate it with out any losses. I did not lose any of them. With my corals I always blow off any excess foods. Anything that gets broken down into the water column is broken down by the intense lighting and chemical filtration. I feed in small amounts so only the fish can eat it for the most part. I am not saying it is full proof but it is woth a shot before having to break down your tank completly. Chloroquine is proven to kill ick as well as other parasites.

 

[MrTuskfish]

A major problem with any food-based ich med,IMO & IME): Because ich can live in various forms for 9+ weeks, I don't see how you could safely keep a therapeutic level of the med in the fish for this long. If the med works internally, it will only kill the parasite once its in the fish. You may get a temporary break in the number of parasites, but 7-8-9 weeks down the road, it comes back. You'd have to keep a lethal (to the parasite) dose of the med in every fish for 9 weeks. I don't think this would be possible; maybe, but it just doesn't seem possible. Ich has a way of renewing its life cycle during very brief windows of opportunity.

 

[eholceker]

i may be going off base here a bit but ick can survive 9 weeks because of the various cycles. If you kill the ick on the fish you avoid the 7 days on the fish and the 3 -8 weeks of a cyst on the ground, and the 72 hours of the water borne parasite. By killing the ick on the fish you prevent all this from happening. I think catching it very early is a big key to using this method but it does work. I fed for 3 weeks. Worst case scenerio it will definilty prevent the outbreak from getting to severe giving you time to setup a QT for copper treatment. I have had such awful experiences with hypo I would never even consider it again.

 

[snorvich]

i may be going off base here a bit but ick can survive 9 weeks because of the various cycles. If you kill the ick on the fish you avoid the 7 days on the fish and the 3 -8 weeks of a cyst on the ground, and the 72 hours of the water borne parasite. By killing the ick on the fish you prevent all this from happening. I think catching it very early is a big key to using this method but it does work. I fed for 3 weeks. Worst case scenerio it will definilty prevent the outbreak from getting to severe giving you time to setup a QT for copper treatment. I have had such awful experiences with hypo I would never even consider it again.

Well, not really. The problem is that you do not know if cysts have already fallen off and reside "on the ground". I too do not recommend hypo and strongly recommend tank transfer over any other option.