rare and/or exotic SPS corals
- Thread starter revclyburn
- Start date
gdemos
New member
Importing from CANADA to US
Importing from CANADA to US
CITES: for the past year I have been working on obtaining the necessary permits and lining up wholesalers to import stuff from CAN to US. I finally have the documents in hand. I only know of a few guys that have gone through this extent as hobbyists and my intent is to put my eyes on some of the finest SPS in Canada and physically drive them over the border to my house. Fed Ex is an option of course, but that defeats the purpose. A) the trucker cannot document the imports like I can B) Border agents and the trucker will surely take their time going through boxes C) not nearly as much fun receiving dead coral in the mail.
So I'm making the trip in the coming weeks. If anyone is interested in my experience with CITES and this effort, happy to post my progress.
This is all in the spirit of obtaining Rare, Exotic, and Beautiful Acros.
-Greg
Importing from CANADA to US
CITES: for the past year I have been working on obtaining the necessary permits and lining up wholesalers to import stuff from CAN to US. I finally have the documents in hand. I only know of a few guys that have gone through this extent as hobbyists and my intent is to put my eyes on some of the finest SPS in Canada and physically drive them over the border to my house. Fed Ex is an option of course, but that defeats the purpose. A) the trucker cannot document the imports like I can B) Border agents and the trucker will surely take their time going through boxes C) not nearly as much fun receiving dead coral in the mail.
So I'm making the trip in the coming weeks. If anyone is interested in my experience with CITES and this effort, happy to post my progress.
This is all in the spirit of obtaining Rare, Exotic, and Beautiful Acros.
-Greg
Peter Eichler
New member
So you're going to go through massive amounts of trouble to get over-hyped, overpriced SPS from a country that isn't even the origin of these corals?
gdemos
New member
Peter,
Respectfully to answer your question, and I mean that, your posts are top notch: no I am not going through this to create more trouble for myself nor to pay more than I should for SPS that I could get elsewhere. So far as going to their place of origin, a trip to Australia, Maldives, etc. is far more expensive than going to Canada (for me anyway). Your tank is awesome and great pics by the way, very very nice. Clearly you know your stuff. I know you had a good amount of RR branded pieces...that's a shop I check out online regularly I just cannot rationalize some of their prices but indeed their pictures they post, and stuff you have posted from them looks great. If you're ever fragging I would surely be interested.
CAN:USD, is an instant 10% price power. Plus the sources I have seen in CAN are illustrating better looking pieces, more availability, and pieces I have not seen advertised (with hobbyists or stores) at much lower cost. While I'd prefer to kick money to the hands of local stores, hobbyists, friends and keep things in the US; which I also do... to acquire all the stuff I'm after in one shot, I can't seem to beat the prospects I am hoping to find in Canada.
Obtaining the permits is not simple nor is it inexpensive, all this needs to be factored in.
Hey 250G - spectacular pieces and photography... how are things in Toronto?
Respectfully to answer your question, and I mean that, your posts are top notch: no I am not going through this to create more trouble for myself nor to pay more than I should for SPS that I could get elsewhere. So far as going to their place of origin, a trip to Australia, Maldives, etc. is far more expensive than going to Canada (for me anyway). Your tank is awesome and great pics by the way, very very nice. Clearly you know your stuff. I know you had a good amount of RR branded pieces...that's a shop I check out online regularly I just cannot rationalize some of their prices but indeed their pictures they post, and stuff you have posted from them looks great. If you're ever fragging I would surely be interested.
CAN:USD, is an instant 10% price power. Plus the sources I have seen in CAN are illustrating better looking pieces, more availability, and pieces I have not seen advertised (with hobbyists or stores) at much lower cost. While I'd prefer to kick money to the hands of local stores, hobbyists, friends and keep things in the US; which I also do... to acquire all the stuff I'm after in one shot, I can't seem to beat the prospects I am hoping to find in Canada.
Obtaining the permits is not simple nor is it inexpensive, all this needs to be factored in.
Hey 250G - spectacular pieces and photography... how are things in Toronto?
Peter Eichler
New member
I don't think Canada is getting better pieces than the US, I think the good pieces are just a little more widely available due to less demand and a little bit easier export into Canada. You also have shops like RR that are skilled at coloring up wild colonies and then generating interest in those frags. Often with some generous photo renditions. I saw many of the original named pieces at RR Toronto, very nice pieces. At the same time, not as nice as some photos depict.
Figuring out a way to gain access to wholesalers in LA probably would have been easier, cheaper, and fruitful. I spend a good amount of time in Canada, I've been to a fair amount of shops there, and I'd say that what's available in the US is as nice or nicer. Reefers in both countries seem to have greener grass syndrome.
Even if I don't understand what you're doing and why you're through the trouble to do it... :lol2: Good luck!
gdemos
New member
Thanks Peter. I've worked with LA wholesalers for fish, and that's only through relationships with guys in the business. haven't done much in LA for coral however. yes indeed, the photo techniques really are deceptive. Personally, my photo skills are non-existent. Like many, it is so enticing to see pics of killer SPS it may drive one nuts to say why can't I get colors like that. to me some of the best pics are the less than perfectly crafted photos. the macro shots are particularly awesome to look at but it can play tricks on your mind.
I hear you about the grass being greener and also think you're right about availability, getting stuff from the pac-rim into Canada must be easier for importation than what wholesalers encounter in the US.
take RR for example, even something like banana lokani if you can find it here, you'll see prices just google for it. 1/2 the time its caroliniana or suharsonoi, or it is really green not yellow. yet in Canada it can be found. Same goes with certain jacquelineae and danai.
I'd be curious to know your experience with RR Toronto and CAN frag houses in general vs RR US, but dont' want to get off topic...just wanted to share some experience with the permitting process and a quest for killer SPS in spirit of this thread.
thanks again for your contribution to the hobby and I appreciate your well wishes.
I hear you about the grass being greener and also think you're right about availability, getting stuff from the pac-rim into Canada must be easier for importation than what wholesalers encounter in the US.
take RR for example, even something like banana lokani if you can find it here, you'll see prices just google for it. 1/2 the time its caroliniana or suharsonoi, or it is really green not yellow. yet in Canada it can be found. Same goes with certain jacquelineae and danai.
I'd be curious to know your experience with RR Toronto and CAN frag houses in general vs RR US, but dont' want to get off topic...just wanted to share some experience with the permitting process and a quest for killer SPS in spirit of this thread.
thanks again for your contribution to the hobby and I appreciate your well wishes.
goodguy
Member
I agree 100% with Peter Eichler with his comments that are shared here. I have been out of the reef scene for several years and just came back 2yrs ago. I would like to share what I have been busy doing while I was taking a break from reefing. This relates to Peter Eichler and also trueblackpercula views so just give me a minute to explain.
I have been breeding freshwater Cichlids, mainly Cyphotilapia Zaires for about 6yrs. Within this group of Zaire's there there are several variants with different names that were given to them that look very similar. These species all come from the second largest and deepest lake in the world, Lake Tanganyika. These Wild Zaire's species get about $200 a fish retail and their offspring at one inch get about $30 each. On the Cyphos forum there is a similar debate going on with our sps corals that we have and currently own. These Zaire variants could possibly be the same fish just like our SPS corals we have in our tanks. I believe the collection points, food, depth, water quality make them look a little different from one another but are the same species. But this is a highly debatable subject on the Cyphos forum.
Some here may not agree with my statements but I believe that most of our corals in our tanks and out in the ocean where they are collected or cultured are the same corals. But with different conditions they look differently.
I believe trueblackpercula statements about having the same colony as RR is true.
I must say coming back after about 10yr break from reefing I found out quickly that there are a lot of fancy names given to corals. It is funny that one coral at a vendor is called " " and another it is called " " but they totally look like the same coral. I understand though that the vendors have to give the coral a name to differentiate the corals. But why always put the "limited edition" or "exclusive" etc. label on it?
I will say this as my final thoughts, corals that have been in captivity a long time hold a higher value to me because I know that they will hold their color and survive the conditions we give them. We have come pretty far in this hobby but I still think we have a lot to learn about our creatures.
I have been breeding freshwater Cichlids, mainly Cyphotilapia Zaires for about 6yrs. Within this group of Zaire's there there are several variants with different names that were given to them that look very similar. These species all come from the second largest and deepest lake in the world, Lake Tanganyika. These Wild Zaire's species get about $200 a fish retail and their offspring at one inch get about $30 each. On the Cyphos forum there is a similar debate going on with our sps corals that we have and currently own. These Zaire variants could possibly be the same fish just like our SPS corals we have in our tanks. I believe the collection points, food, depth, water quality make them look a little different from one another but are the same species. But this is a highly debatable subject on the Cyphos forum.
Some here may not agree with my statements but I believe that most of our corals in our tanks and out in the ocean where they are collected or cultured are the same corals. But with different conditions they look differently.
I believe trueblackpercula statements about having the same colony as RR is true.
I must say coming back after about 10yr break from reefing I found out quickly that there are a lot of fancy names given to corals. It is funny that one coral at a vendor is called " " and another it is called " " but they totally look like the same coral. I understand though that the vendors have to give the coral a name to differentiate the corals. But why always put the "limited edition" or "exclusive" etc. label on it?
I will say this as my final thoughts, corals that have been in captivity a long time hold a higher value to me because I know that they will hold their color and survive the conditions we give them. We have come pretty far in this hobby but I still think we have a lot to learn about our creatures.
trueblackpercula
New member
Very well put and welcome back to the wonderful world of Sps ( Super Photo Shopped ) lol
gdemos
New member
All valid points. Well consider what is meant by rare and exotic. First and foremost its not for everyone. I'm not saying that I'm a huge risk taker in chasing the rare SPS quest, but I am certainly open to those that are and encourage the market to play out.
Rare: not commonly found, either because it has not sustained good success rates in our tank (not good unless you feel you've got the midas touch) or it is a new strain of known species (interesting).
Exotic: perhaps maricultured/ wild pieces they land and get exposed to tank style lighting and parameters. perhaps great photography skills add to their exotica.
If this is the case then importers/wholesalers/shops have a marketplace --why deny it. they may dress up their goods with photos (caveat emptor). the market (like any) will have its way of shaking out those that don't want to play and that is okay. Those of us willing to expend the resources to obtain such pieces, why deny that quest?
If ultimately it is beneficial to the hobby its a good thing. There's no doubt the market includes this chicanery, photo shopping, fancy marketing re-names, etc, etc. .
Lastly and I'll leave it at this: Consider - Is it possible that really special pieces that are rare and exotic find their way into the hobbyist community and thrive?: Absolutely, and if it were not for these truths our hobby would not exist.
Rare: not commonly found, either because it has not sustained good success rates in our tank (not good unless you feel you've got the midas touch) or it is a new strain of known species (interesting).
Exotic: perhaps maricultured/ wild pieces they land and get exposed to tank style lighting and parameters. perhaps great photography skills add to their exotica.
If this is the case then importers/wholesalers/shops have a marketplace --why deny it. they may dress up their goods with photos (caveat emptor). the market (like any) will have its way of shaking out those that don't want to play and that is okay. Those of us willing to expend the resources to obtain such pieces, why deny that quest?
If ultimately it is beneficial to the hobby its a good thing. There's no doubt the market includes this chicanery, photo shopping, fancy marketing re-names, etc, etc. .
Lastly and I'll leave it at this: Consider - Is it possible that really special pieces that are rare and exotic find their way into the hobbyist community and thrive?: Absolutely, and if it were not for these truths our hobby would not exist.
JPMagyar
New member
goodguy
Member
I was laughing so hard when I saw "Super Photo Shopped" SPS. I never thought of it that way.
trueblackpercula
New member
Yes they do but someone paying a high price and being deceived is NOT funny.
These are cool.
Nice to see the "Real" RR Orange Passion
vs the relabeled brown polyp redish base thing
