With zero phosphates there would be no life...
this was meant from a testing point of view,even the best of tests will not give you aguaranteed reading
Also, I've only seen phosphate to be a limiting factor in zoanthid growth by means of algae growth which will inhibit reproduction of zoanthids.
this is what i was refering to, its the film algae that will stop them from opening
Beyond that, when phosphate is talked about in regards to inhibiting coral growth, it's usually in regards to its ability to inhibit calcification, which is not a factor with zoanthids.
see above comment
In fact I have witnessed explosive growth of zoanthids in tanks with quite high levels of phosphate (over 2ppm in many cases).
i have seen them die in this, so, both our opinions i guess unless you have some scientific proof they will all live in that high of phosphate, and im curious what was the long term success of this??
I find it quite peculiar that you act as if phosphate is the great limiting factor, but then act as if nitrate is something that will encourage growth.
i clearly said this to be what ive found, in my post ,as mosty of what your saying is??
Both of those are required to be present for growth to take place, but in both instances we don't have test kits accurate enough to measure the small amounts that need be present.
Dipping too low on either (below test kit detection levels) could limit growth, but I've never witnessed the presence of either limit the growth of zoanthids in general.
again, like i said , your taking the zero phosphate as a literal term when theres always going to be phosphates, i was merely saying to run a reactor to keep phosphates in check
In regards to feeding, there are actually studies showing how highly autotrophic some zoanthids can be. So, to make the statement that "they get tiny amounts of food through their mouth 24/7" without any real basis is quite presumptuous.
hers a quote from Advanced aquarist:
Zoanthus spp. do not need to be fed directly, since they obtain much of their nutritional requirements from their symbiotic zooxanthellae. They must therefore be provided with adequate illumination to thrive. They also ingest dissolved organic substances from the water, as well as fine particulate matter. Some species do not take large particles of food, while others do take and eat such things as flake food, blackworms, shrimp, and sea urchin eggs. Regular feeding promotes rapid growth.
this is the link:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/2/inverts
As far as zoanthids go, I would suspect "rastas" to be among the more autotrophic in the hobby, but that's purely a somewhat educated guess and based on the fact that they exhibit no prey capture.
in my 10yrs of zoanthids and feedings i believe they do. so in short your saying if theres no feeding response to capture the prey theres no possibilitie what so ever of them feeding right??
Also, your statement about nitrates and the stability of nitrates is quite puzzling. The toxicity of nitrates has been overblown by quite a bit through the years, but I don't think I've ever seen anything on the stability of nitrates being a limiting factor in growth. In fact stability of various things is something that is often overblown in the hobby, but I've nitrate stability being important brought up before. So, I'm not even sure what to make of this statement and am wondering what the basis is there.
you missed the part about how i said i find , not i have proof , these are just that... what ive found, do you have proof that says the opposite?? or is this also what you have found??
After that you do into talk of dipping and snipping or fragging corals to promote growth, but then a short time later mention you need to "leave it alone". I kinda know where you're coming from with that, and all zoanthids can be a little different, but there's a lot of contradiction there.
yup , and i still stand by it , ive found for many , ill admit def not all, that fragging and snipping CAN start a growth spurt, if your looking for scientific proof i have none ,again this is what ive found in my years of doing this.
Why so much confidence in things with little to no scientific basis, yet so quick to shoot down information that does relate to something that actually has peer reviewed scientific studies to back it up?
and what exactly did i shoot down i dont recall shooting anyones ideas down , perhaps youd like to quote that part for me??
I hate to pick on you a little, but it's posts like yours that can make it frustrating to be a part of these forums.
its people like you who keep people from me coming to RC , people with very little respect to others opions...again opinions!!
Just a general rant since I'm on a roll... and I probably won't make many friends with this statement, but I don't seem to do that much in general when I post in this forum and why I generally tend to stay away.
believe it or not i can see that
The zoanthid forum and side of the hobby seems to have the biggest use of conjecture and generally either can't get the genus of their inhabitants correct, or don't care enough to do so. Sadly, the same person that insists on calling some pretty clearly a zoanthus species a "paly" will fight to the death over if something is a "true" red devil eater or not.
i dont see what this has to do with my answer or the op's question , if you want to start a thread on "the way names should be" then do so , i have no interest in zoo names, in fact i have over 150 types including palythoas, the only ones i know the names for are the ones that came with names.
I get the usefulness of the names and am not fully against them and use them myself, but it's really too bad that it seems many have lost sight over what it is we're really keeping.
i cant tell what you mean anymore i think you gave up at this point???
It seems a whole new generation of reefers looks at reefing more like collecting pokemon cards rather than gardening or something with more scientific roots.
and sps does not , right?? cause there arnt hard core sps collectors out there naming and buying things frequently aand looking for the next "flavor"....
Sorry guys, I feel better now. :wave: Let me have it... :angryfire:
that should about cover it
P.S. Does anyone have some space monster palys for trade or sale?! Just kidding, sort of
I hope a rebuild is in the works and that the new tank is more successful than ever!
