RDSB - Remote Deep Sand Bed Benefits - 2014

dtum

dtum

New member
I'd like to talk about the benefits of a Remote Deep Sand Bed. Before starting this thread I've gone over other threads on RC that reference it and there are tons of different opinions on this matter. What I want to know is what is the modern common opinion about them.

We all know that RDSB will help with lowering the nitrates. I believe it will also help in breaking down ammonia into nitrites and nitrates.

What are the other benefits of RDSB? I've heard that it should help stabilize ones reef, but I would like to understand the mechanics of that.

I was also told that it will be producing some organics that will be feeding the corals.

And I was also told that if you want to have a vibrant and healthy SPS tank with rich colors, having a RDSB will be beneficial. Is that really the case and if yes, then how would that work?

On the other hand, most of my local club members don't believe in them at all, and so do a lot of people on RC.

Can anyone share their personal experience, perhaps even with some examples? :hmm1:
 
I'm planning one on my system after I get a bunch of tanks tied together, so looking forward to this conversation!
 
So I'm in the process of upgrading my sump ( I have the new sump already and I'm working on rerouting all the electrical and the plumbing ) and I'm thinking of incorporating a removable DSB. This way I can get the benefits of the DSB and easily remove it when it starts to turn nasty.
 
I would also be curious as to recent experiences ...

I set one up on my prior 90 gallon tank, and ported it over onto my 265 upgrade, and it appears to have made no difference one way or the other. I suspect it is just way to small (a 10 gallon tank) to have any material affect. Any views on how large the RDSB ought to relative to the display - just a rough RoT? Maybe a bit like a refugium needs to be x% of display size to function effectively as a provider of pods and remover of wastes.
 
What do you guys think of this?
My main sump is a 150g Rubbermaid tub.
Right now i have a skimmer box inside it, sitting on two plastic egg crates.
Around that, is a bunch of live rock.
What if I did a deep sand bed in this tub? It would kinda be a remote sand bed in the way of not being in the main display where it could remain relatively untouched.
And i could have A LOT!
I would just need to plumb in an elbow and a vertical extension to the drain so it would reach above the sand bed.

Here's a couple pics so you can see.


20130801_8010889_200gReef.jpg


20130804_8040939_200gReef.jpg


Ignore the white pvc. That was my attempt to add more flow in there but I don't think its really doing much so I was going to remove it anyway.
20130824_8240987_200gReef.jpg
 
The one thing I've heard is that DSBs can get nasty and start adding to the nitrate and PO4 level of the tank and that removing them can be disastrous if not done right. Here's where the remote dsb comes in. When it gets to this state you take it off line, remove and replace it and then put it back online so it starts anew.

I'm guessing this may cause a mini cycle due to adding all the new sand but I'm not completely sure. With your setup it looks like it could work as long as you have a method of removing and replacing without contaminating the system as the same time.

Now I Also don't have any concrete evidence on this and it's just here say that I've read on threads. If anyone has concrete evidence supporting of denying this please post so we can all learn.

D2mini what do you hope to accomplish with a dsb? Isn't your system amazing as 8 it is? :)
 
Joel_155 said:
Now I Also don't have any concrete evidence on this and it's just here say that I've read on threads. If anyone has concrete evidence supporting of denying this please post so we can all learn.

D2mini what do you hope to accomplish with a dsb? Isn't your system amazing as 8 it is? :)
Click to expand...

The first link in post #6 is a good read. Check it out.

And well, thank you... but i'm always looking to improve my system. If I can do anything to make it more stable or more healthy, I'm all for it. :)
There's definitely a lot about a dsb that makes sense. And I question the supposed "downsides". I'm not a fan of them in the display tank, but just like the OP, i'm really curious to their effectiveness when placed elsewhere in the system.
 
I have one as part of my fuge in my sump. Sump is homemade with the pump section in the middle. The pump t's off and feeds both the display and fuge so I can take it off line at any time. It's been up and running for 3 months and I still don't see any signs if life lol. No darkening of the substrate or nothing. Patiently waiting to see if it's worth the time. Also wondering if it's just too damn small to make much of a difference on the tank
 
I think a DSB would be just another option for lowering nitrates or phosphates, as in pick your poison: GFO, macro algae, heavy skimming, carbon dosing, bio pellets, sulfur denitrator, etc.

I can tell you one thing, DSBs have been around for a very long time, and if they were all that, everyone would use one. They are not necessarily a bad thing, but certainly not a magic bullet. Just another tool in the toolbox, IME. I choose not to use one, mainly for space considerations. I do quite well using a sulfur denitrator and GFO for nitrates and phosphates, but there are many ways to a successful reef.
 
That is one of the reasons I've considered junking the idea. I skim heavy, use chaeto and gfo, AND vinegar dose.
 
Ya, i've always been partial to doing things as naturally as possible. :)
My skimmer is the only mechanical filtration I want to use. I don't want to use GFO or carbon dose or any of that. I switched from two-part dosing to a CaRx partially to provide these elements in a more natural form. I utilize a wide variety of CUC. I don't believe in vacuuming the sand bed either. Better biological filtration and more food for coral and filter feeders is appealing to me.

Seems to me that if you have the space, there are several upsides with not much of any downsides. Especially if you can isolate the dsb just in case.
 
Yeah I'm going for that with my tank too. I've been using biopellets for over a year now as my main nutrient export and it's not working for my system. I saw an episode of Mr . saltwater tank tv on YouTube and he visited Julian sprung's personal tank and he all he had on his system was a uv sterilizer and a fuge. So all his filtration was rock, sand and fuge. The tank looked amazing and I eventually hope to get to that level. ...hopefully the DSB is a part of that.
 
Now is there a correlation between having a RDSB and SPS colours? Shimek's article does state that the DSB will be providing continuous food source for corals, but what would be the end result of that?
Mind you, that neither previous mentioned chaeto or gfo are doing that, so would not that make a point in favour of DSB?
 
I've used a deep sand bed in a sump/refugium combination and it seemed to work extremely well. My skimmer eventual stopped working, so I removed it. Interestingly, people were more entertained by me feeding the DSB (with things like shrimp pellets) and seeing all those worms and other things pop up than the actual tank.

I never had an issue, but I did sell the tank when I moved to a different state.

For a remote deep sand bed in something like a closed 5 gallon bucket, I would recommend running it for a couple of years, then plumbing another 5 gallon bucket RDSB in place, letting it get going, and then removing the originally one.

You can simple cycle the 2 RDSB buckets and not have to worry about what they are accumulating. Indeed, they are there so that you can remove that accumulation every so often. :)

p.s. I'm claiming this as a unique idea and will name it after myself if no one has ever mentioned it before (rotating RDSB buckets). ;)
 
kevin_austin said:
p.s. I'm claiming this as a unique idea and will name it after myself if no one has ever mentioned it before (rotating RDSB buckets). ;)
Click to expand...

Kevin, if you go back to the original Calfo RDSB thread, you may find that was one of the methods he suggested. :beer:
 
sirreal63 said:
Kevin, if you go back to the original Calfo RDSB thread, you may find that was one of the methods he suggested. :beer:
Click to expand...

I haven't read it, but I'm sure someone else thought of it first. :) I originally tried the deep sand bed about 13 or 14 years ago. I don't remember where I read about it (maybe on reefcentral of thereeftank). However, it definitely was not an original idea of mine! ;)
 
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