Rebuild and recovery of a dead tank
- Thread starter jason2459
- Start date
jason2459
Well-known member
There's one or my guess many shrimp breeding like crazy right now. There's shrimp larva everywhere now. In my sump, back overflow, in the reactor, in the main tank (for a split second), etc. I tried getting a picture of them but they are fast, tiny, and clear...and I suck at taking pictures.
jason2459
Well-known member
I finally got around to setting up the T to the collection cup. One side pulls in air that passes through my ozone generator and CO2 scrubber and the other pulls in air from the collection cup.
This does a few things for me. On the ozone/scrubber side it cuts down on the air drawn from those two. The ozone generator when running, which it hasn't been, doesn't need a lot of air pulled through it to be effective.
The scrubber I don't want a lot of air going through it as it would exhaust the soda lime a lot faster making it more expensive which wasn't what I wanted to do otherwise I'd just punch a whole in the wall and pull from outside. I also don't need or want to increase the pH that much at all. I just wanted to establish an easy, cheap, no risk of outside pollutants, and effective way to increase pH steadily above 7.9. It's done all of that so far.
The second line going to the lid and into the collection cup does a few things as well. First is it draws in smelly air so it can't escape which is even worse now that I don't clean my collection cup much at all anymore with the swabbie installed.
Second is it pulls in that smelly air but also if my ozone is running would pull back in any residual ozone not allowing it to escape potentially creating a health risk. It does require any other opening in the lid to be closed off. This way I don't need to worry about paying escaped air through carbon which could still allow ozone to pass through if it's channeling or the carbon is exhausted.
Third that air line will shut down skimming and reduce the chance of an over flow as it sucks that overflowing water back down into the skimmer. This could happen if day the drain line clogs up and somehow I don't notice it or I'm away for a week or the skimmer goes volcano foam crazy.
The avast swabbie lid has a lot of little holes. I closed them up with gorilla tape and had to drill out on so a 3/8 line would fit in. 1/4 wouldn't allow enough air or water if needed draw and could clog up easier.
This does a few things for me. On the ozone/scrubber side it cuts down on the air drawn from those two. The ozone generator when running, which it hasn't been, doesn't need a lot of air pulled through it to be effective.
The scrubber I don't want a lot of air going through it as it would exhaust the soda lime a lot faster making it more expensive which wasn't what I wanted to do otherwise I'd just punch a whole in the wall and pull from outside. I also don't need or want to increase the pH that much at all. I just wanted to establish an easy, cheap, no risk of outside pollutants, and effective way to increase pH steadily above 7.9. It's done all of that so far.
The second line going to the lid and into the collection cup does a few things as well. First is it draws in smelly air so it can't escape which is even worse now that I don't clean my collection cup much at all anymore with the swabbie installed.
Second is it pulls in that smelly air but also if my ozone is running would pull back in any residual ozone not allowing it to escape potentially creating a health risk. It does require any other opening in the lid to be closed off. This way I don't need to worry about paying escaped air through carbon which could still allow ozone to pass through if it's channeling or the carbon is exhausted.
Third that air line will shut down skimming and reduce the chance of an over flow as it sucks that overflowing water back down into the skimmer. This could happen if day the drain line clogs up and somehow I don't notice it or I'm away for a week or the skimmer goes volcano foam crazy.
The avast swabbie lid has a lot of little holes. I closed them up with gorilla tape and had to drill out on so a 3/8 line would fit in. 1/4 wouldn't allow enough air or water if needed draw and could clog up easier.
jason2459
Well-known member
I think I've got a good routine going with the filling up the salt mix container, emptying the davy jones locker, and cleaning the swabbie blade and lid.
The swabbie gets a good amount of build up over time as I'm not cleaning the collection cup and lid every 4-7 days anymore. So, I could manually pull it out every few weeks and clean off the crud but I'm lazy and the entire reason I got it and the davy jones locker.
So, what I plan on doing and what I just did is when it's time to fill up my brute mixing container with new salt water I will close down the outlet pipe of the skimmer flooding the collection cup which worked well to clean up the blade and top of the lid and a bit of the collection.
I've been waiting till I notice my spectrapure is shut off to know when to fill up the brute. It's shutoff by being plugged into the big float switch piggy back plug. Then there a few gallons left. I just pump that out of the bottom while closing off the outlet pipe so I'm doing a bit of a water change there at the same time.
The Davy Jones locker had a couple gallons already in it and I just flooded the collection cup draining into the locker until the failsafe pressure switch noticed the bucket was full and shutdown the skimmer. I then open back up the pipe so if it turns back on which it will do after 2m via the apex it wont flood anything until I get back down there to hook back up the collection cup drain line and put the water level back to where I want it and back to normal operation.
Then I continue on with filling the salt mix container with new RO/DI water.
Water level at the point when the float switch opens and shutdown the spectrapure AWC pumps. And I dropped in a mj1200 to pump water up to the sump while the skimmer is draining it cleaning off the swabbie
Cleaned off swabbie, YAY
Full Davy Jones Locker
Yummy
The swabbie gets a good amount of build up over time as I'm not cleaning the collection cup and lid every 4-7 days anymore. So, I could manually pull it out every few weeks and clean off the crud but I'm lazy and the entire reason I got it and the davy jones locker.
So, what I plan on doing and what I just did is when it's time to fill up my brute mixing container with new salt water I will close down the outlet pipe of the skimmer flooding the collection cup which worked well to clean up the blade and top of the lid and a bit of the collection.
I've been waiting till I notice my spectrapure is shut off to know when to fill up the brute. It's shutoff by being plugged into the big float switch piggy back plug. Then there a few gallons left. I just pump that out of the bottom while closing off the outlet pipe so I'm doing a bit of a water change there at the same time.
The Davy Jones locker had a couple gallons already in it and I just flooded the collection cup draining into the locker until the failsafe pressure switch noticed the bucket was full and shutdown the skimmer. I then open back up the pipe so if it turns back on which it will do after 2m via the apex it wont flood anything until I get back down there to hook back up the collection cup drain line and put the water level back to where I want it and back to normal operation.
Then I continue on with filling the salt mix container with new RO/DI water.
Water level at the point when the float switch opens and shutdown the spectrapure AWC pumps. And I dropped in a mj1200 to pump water up to the sump while the skimmer is draining it cleaning off the swabbie
Cleaned off swabbie, YAY
Full Davy Jones Locker
Yummy
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jason2459
Well-known member
My alk seems to be slowly creeping up. It's at 13dkh tonight. Last reading recorded in this journal was 11. It used to be a while ago around 9-10. But that was last year when I had a lot more growing LPS and a couple SPS. Now I only have 1 LPS and some softies and the anemones. The LPS really hasn't grown much and wonder if it's a matter of to much alk. The leather and mushrooms have been growing well. The anemones seem good and the RBTA has split 3 times but has stayed in the same spot so must be some what happy.
I've been deciding if I really want to go down the road of some more LPS again but then I would worry about the anemones hitting them. I almost wouldn't mind if the bubble tips took over most of the tank. I'm thinking of looking for some more variations.
So, this means I probably need to look at reducing my alk in some way. I could stop dosing kalk in my ATO but its the number one thing keeping my pH up and my calcium levels are constantly perfect and read 420 tonight. That hasn't gone up like the alk has so something is consuming it more so then the alk. I'm suspecting my non-coral inverts like shrimp, pods, crabs, etc. I have a little coraline growth but nothing crazy and if it was that then I would think my alk would be maintained lower as well.
So, I'll keep dosing lime water. I could change salt mixes with lower alk levels in them. But I love IO besides it having around 11dkh mixed. It's got all the other parameters I like and its cheap!
So, I'll keep IO. This leaves me with looking at muriatic acid added to my salt mix to lower that 11dkh. I'm still calculating what I should lower it to in order to bring my tanks dkh down to ~8-10dkh. Need to calculate my saltmix container volume. Then based on around 1% tank volume changed at day and to counter the kalk addition with out killing pH.
This will be fun. Just have to treat muriatic acid with respect and caution.
I've been deciding if I really want to go down the road of some more LPS again but then I would worry about the anemones hitting them. I almost wouldn't mind if the bubble tips took over most of the tank. I'm thinking of looking for some more variations.
So, this means I probably need to look at reducing my alk in some way. I could stop dosing kalk in my ATO but its the number one thing keeping my pH up and my calcium levels are constantly perfect and read 420 tonight. That hasn't gone up like the alk has so something is consuming it more so then the alk. I'm suspecting my non-coral inverts like shrimp, pods, crabs, etc. I have a little coraline growth but nothing crazy and if it was that then I would think my alk would be maintained lower as well.
So, I'll keep dosing lime water. I could change salt mixes with lower alk levels in them. But I love IO besides it having around 11dkh mixed. It's got all the other parameters I like and its cheap!
So, I'll keep IO. This leaves me with looking at muriatic acid added to my salt mix to lower that 11dkh. I'm still calculating what I should lower it to in order to bring my tanks dkh down to ~8-10dkh. Need to calculate my saltmix container volume. Then based on around 1% tank volume changed at day and to counter the kalk addition with out killing pH.
This will be fun. Just have to treat muriatic acid with respect and caution.
jason2459
Well-known member
Almost forgot its been 2 weeks since last ATS cleaning. I was excited to see what I was going to pull out tonight.
This time the front side was much fuller. I think last time it was the backside. It could be the same side just when I put the screen back in I really don't lay attention if it's going back in the same direction.
Front
Back
The thickness
And what was cleaned off
I did notice that on both sides the bottom corners were the least covered. I'm thinking flow? I went ahead and turned the dial on the valve to fully open. Will see in two weeks what that will do.
This time the front side was much fuller. I think last time it was the backside. It could be the same side just when I put the screen back in I really don't lay attention if it's going back in the same direction.
Front
Back
The thickness
And what was cleaned off
I did notice that on both sides the bottom corners were the least covered. I'm thinking flow? I went ahead and turned the dial on the valve to fully open. Will see in two weeks what that will do.
jason2459
Well-known member
I found that diminishing rate of return on the flow. Past two weeks I had my ATS pump on full for the first time and it did not work out so well.
Front
Back
So I cleaned it off and throttled the flow back a bit again
So I think I'll set it to this again for a couple weeks and it should come right back. I don't know if I should increase the lighting period a bit or wait a couple weeks for it to produce that nice thick mat again.
Now on the awesome side my ORP plummeted during this time frame and is about 380 just before the ATS LEDs turned off this morning and is at 368 right now. So I kind of was assuming something wasn't right and my theory was right. Ha!
This I think makes a much more solid case the ATS is directly effecting the ORP levels. Now to see if it at least stabilizes over the next two weeks. I'll have to pull my ORP graphs for the past couple weeks later.
Front
Back
So I cleaned it off and throttled the flow back a bit again
So I think I'll set it to this again for a couple weeks and it should come right back. I don't know if I should increase the lighting period a bit or wait a couple weeks for it to produce that nice thick mat again.
Now on the awesome side my ORP plummeted during this time frame and is about 380 just before the ATS LEDs turned off this morning and is at 368 right now. So I kind of was assuming something wasn't right and my theory was right. Ha!
This I think makes a much more solid case the ATS is directly effecting the ORP levels. Now to see if it at least stabilizes over the next two weeks. I'll have to pull my ORP graphs for the past couple weeks later.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
The other thing could be that the algae is running out of "fuel" i.e. some clean-up has been happening and now that's subsiding. Kind of like when you go on a low-carb diet and lose water weight right away.
The other thing could be that the algae is running out of "fuel" i.e. some clean-up has been happening and now that's subsiding. Kind of like when you go on a low-carb diet and lose water weight right away.
jason2459
Well-known member
I've been finding it fascinating how it has been working and interacting with the ORP. The ORP still goes up every night after the ATS LEDs go on and peaks as they go off it's just the drop every night has been more then the gains recently.
We'll see the next two weeks with the cut back of the flow.
jason2459
Well-known member
Looks like the graph can only do 7 days at a time.
So, here's the stats for the past 7 days which has been hovering around 350-360's the past few days on average during the lows.
Overall Minimum: 346 Average: 365.15 Maximum: 383
Selected Minimum: 346 Average: 365.15 Maximum: 383
But here's a good graph representing what I was watching and shows the dramatic drop I mentioned above. You can see it going up every night with the LEDs on but it wasn't keeping up with the daily drop.
So, here's the stats for the past 7 days which has been hovering around 350-360's the past few days on average during the lows.
Overall Minimum: 346 Average: 365.15 Maximum: 383
Selected Minimum: 346 Average: 365.15 Maximum: 383
But here's a good graph representing what I was watching and shows the dramatic drop I mentioned above. You can see it going up every night with the LEDs on but it wasn't keeping up with the daily drop.
jason2459
Well-known member
Well, I got through a box of IO salt and that's when I usually do a little clean up in my sump room and toss what ever in the empty box to throw away. I finally came across the little clip for the big float switch weight. I never did get around to buying a new one and it's been working with out it but I just added it back on tonight for good measure.
Dkuhlmann
New member
This guy has settled in nicely. I wish my clown fish would.
Great tank and a good read about your adventure in reefing ups and downs.
I've got some of these same bta's and just had a new addition on Friday so I'm up to 4 now. I also notice yours have the same screwed up looking tentacles, any idea what causes this? Before I bought the first one I saw it bubbled up beautifully under LED's and the florescents were amazing. They have great color now but my pictures come out like yours do thanks to the blues that get captured in my camera. :hammer: So do you have any idea why the long corkscrew etc tentacles? Also I find these guys don't move around very much, none of mine have moved more then 3-4" one of them going as far as 6" from where I originally put it. Gotta love that!
So what's up with our clowns not wanting to get in and play with these guys? I'm now waiting about 6 months since I got my first one.
Anyway I would love to come see your amazing tank one of these days if thats ok. I also live in Iowa in the NW part of the state.
Thanks for sharing this amazing journey with us. :thumbsup:
Dave
jason2459
Well-known member
I'm not sure why bubble tips bubble and sometimes don't. There was a thread where someone was trying to put together a study on that so I'm assuming there isn't a real good answer right now.
The blue LEDs do not do mine justice either in pictures. The colors pop a lot more in person. My red's haven't moved much at all. My green has moved all over that right rock structure but still on that side.
Which my biggest clown has been eyeing the green bubble tip but hasn't fully gone for it yet. I'm assuming it's turning female though. It was my male which the original female was one of the fish that didn't make it last year when my tank got nuked by cleaning solvents. My wife got me a new very tiny baby that's starting to get some size. I can see my original much bigger clown starting to interact with the little guy I'm assuming is starting to come to maturity. Then I hope they make one of the BTAs a home.
The blue LEDs do not do mine justice either in pictures. The colors pop a lot more in person. My red's haven't moved much at all. My green has moved all over that right rock structure but still on that side.
Which my biggest clown has been eyeing the green bubble tip but hasn't fully gone for it yet. I'm assuming it's turning female though. It was my male which the original female was one of the fish that didn't make it last year when my tank got nuked by cleaning solvents. My wife got me a new very tiny baby that's starting to get some size. I can see my original much bigger clown starting to interact with the little guy I'm assuming is starting to come to maturity. Then I hope they make one of the BTAs a home.
jason2459
Well-known member
I went ahead and did a full set of tests tonight. I was curious how the Alk did after a full 40+g have changed out at a lower alk level using muriatic acid. Plus how the phosphate levels where now that the cyano is almost all gone. And decided why stop there. Most were really easy to get anyway from probes and all were as expected and either getting back to normal ranges or there.
Salinity:
34.9ppt Apex probe
35ppt vitalsine
35ppt Milwaukee
pH:
8.16 Display tank probe Apex
8.29 Sump probe Apex
Temp:
78.2 display tank probe Apex
79.4 sump probe Apex
ORP:
359 Apex probe
Nitrate:
Undetectable API
Alk:
7dkh salt mix container API (9ml muriatic acid added to 1 bag IO mixed in to 35ppt)
12dkh API (down from 13 so back on the right track. Want to get it down to 8-10 but slowly)
Calcium:
420 API
Magnesium:
1410 Salifert. (Slightly higher then normal but probably a good thing right now to keep that elevated alk in balance. I add 14oz of mag chloride / sulfate mix to my IO salt mix container every new bag I add to mix in)
And drum roll please...
Phosphates:
.058 Hanna Checker (perfect for me getting between .04-.06. With +/- .04 accuracy that gets me under my target of less then .09
For the mag supplement since I use kalk and not 2 part so I don't use the improved diy recipe but follow the following
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/
3. Using both Epsom salts and*MAG flake, dissolve 7¼ cups*MAG flake*and ¾ cup Epsom salts in one gallon of water, and use that to supplement magnesium in amounts determined using this*linked online calculator, with the entry "Randy's Recipes 1 and 2 Versions A and B," and ignore for this purpose what those designations mean. This recipe is preferred, but its advantage over recipe #2 is minimal in most cases.
can't go wrong following RHF
Salinity:
34.9ppt Apex probe
35ppt vitalsine
35ppt Milwaukee
pH:
8.16 Display tank probe Apex
8.29 Sump probe Apex
Temp:
78.2 display tank probe Apex
79.4 sump probe Apex
ORP:
359 Apex probe
Nitrate:
Undetectable API
Alk:
7dkh salt mix container API (9ml muriatic acid added to 1 bag IO mixed in to 35ppt)
12dkh API (down from 13 so back on the right track. Want to get it down to 8-10 but slowly)
Calcium:
420 API
Magnesium:
1410 Salifert. (Slightly higher then normal but probably a good thing right now to keep that elevated alk in balance. I add 14oz of mag chloride / sulfate mix to my IO salt mix container every new bag I add to mix in)
And drum roll please...
Phosphates:
.058 Hanna Checker (perfect for me getting between .04-.06. With +/- .04 accuracy that gets me under my target of less then .09
For the mag supplement since I use kalk and not 2 part so I don't use the improved diy recipe but follow the following
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/
3. Using both Epsom salts and*MAG flake, dissolve 7¼ cups*MAG flake*and ¾ cup Epsom salts in one gallon of water, and use that to supplement magnesium in amounts determined using this*linked online calculator, with the entry "Randy's Recipes 1 and 2 Versions A and B," and ignore for this purpose what those designations mean. This recipe is preferred, but its advantage over recipe #2 is minimal in most cases.
can't go wrong following RHF
Last edited:
jason2459
Well-known member
I got the icecap battery backup for my gyre but it supports just about any 12-24v DC pump. It comes with cables and adapters to support multiple kinds of DC adaptors for various DC pumps, two Y cable for support up to two pumps, and a link cable to daisy chain multi battery backups to extend the backup time. I suppose with the Apex 1 link it could backup what ever is coming off that one link.
I didn't have to use any of the adapters for the maxspect gyre as it natively plugged right in and took maybe 5 seconds to hook up. Couldn't have been easier.
Next I'll look at getting a second gyre vertical I'm the back right of the tank, two icecap modules and a second battery backup. Then use the Apex to get both gyres working together to make a super gyre around the tank and on power failure to turn off one of the gyres and put the other gyre down to 30%. With that and both batteries that will keep it running for well over 60 hours!
Took longer to get everything out of the packaging
The second Y cable for a second pump if you want. I won't need it. I have the link cable already out and waiting shown in the above picture.
And the adapters for various brands of 12-24v DC pumps.
I didn't have to use any of the adapters for the maxspect gyre as it natively plugged right in and took maybe 5 seconds to hook up. Couldn't have been easier.
Next I'll look at getting a second gyre vertical I'm the back right of the tank, two icecap modules and a second battery backup. Then use the Apex to get both gyres working together to make a super gyre around the tank and on power failure to turn off one of the gyres and put the other gyre down to 30%. With that and both batteries that will keep it running for well over 60 hours!
Took longer to get everything out of the packaging
The second Y cable for a second pump if you want. I won't need it. I have the link cable already out and waiting shown in the above picture.
And the adapters for various brands of 12-24v DC pumps.
