Red Bug treatment Questions

C

Crackem

New member
I've read many threads dealing with in tank red bug treatments but as always there are many replies that say one thing and many that say the opposite. So I have a few questions that I would like to have clarified if possible?

1- I read that I need to remove my 2 cleaner shrimp and my hermit crabs, but not my snails because they do not have an exoskeleton.

Is this true? The reason I ask is because I don't have a qt tank and I'm not sure the best way to do this treatment without one. How can I keep my shrimp and crabs alive for 3-4 weeks?

2nd question is what is the difference between interceptor spectrum and sentinel spectrum? My friend is a vet and says he has sentinel but doesn't know off hand what spectrum is. Which one should I use? I can get sentinel from him.

3rd - How much should I use for about 50-60 total water volume?

Thanks
 
Well for the one part of your question. I would remove as many shrimp and crabs as you can. I have not noticed any adverse effects to my snails, anemone, or urchin during the treatment. Maybe I got lucky. However I was impatient and didn't remove my cleaner shrimp or crabs. Lost 1 cleaner shrimp and probably 50% or so of my hermits. I had the Large interceptor pill (50-100lb dogs) and used 1/2a pill per treatment of my ~150g system.
 
Remove shrimp and crabs. Do you have a friend that can house them for you? If not a bucket with water movement and heater will work.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I guess I'll be taking the shrimp and crabs out when the time comes. I wonder how long they can live in a 5 gallon bucket. Should I use tank water or make some ?
 
I'm sure someone has a 10 gallon laying around you could borrow. If you were closer, I do. I treated my tank with Interceptor Spectrum, and everything went well. I did not have crabs or shrimp, but it did wipe out my pod population.
 
Crackem,

the reason why you're getting mixed answers is because people have been getting mixed results. some people have no effects on their inverts as some do. of course that may be due to many things like the potency of the treatment, your estimate of the amount of water volume is off, my 3/4 of a pill may be slightly different than your 3/4 of a pill etc.

You really can't give a blanket answer on this one unless you err on the side of caution and say remove them.

We all know how difficult it can be to remove inverts from an established tank. If you can get them out... great, do so. But if you can't then you find yourself in between a rock and a hard place. Do you want to save your corals? or do you want to keep your inverts alive? In that case I would weigh the odds. The corals are doomed if you don't remove the red bugs, however there's a slight chance that the inverts will survive. I'd save the coral and hope the treatment doesn't kill the inverts.
 
oh and for your second question:

the active ingredient in both are the same (23 mg of milbemycin oxime), sentinel has something extra which is 460mg of lufenuron (which is used to control flea eggs in dogs).

and question 3: 1/2 to 3/4 of a tab
 
Crabs and shrimp need to go to be sure - this was also true with the old interceptor... some would die, some would not. You can most likely get the shrimp to climb into a mason jar with a tasty treat at the bottom. I have caught many like this before in just a few minutes. Works for peppermints too. I have heard of people who apply the med and fish their stubborn shrimp out once they get woozy from the medication - no idea if this works since I never did it.

The 23mg pill will treat 300G of water.
 
rovster said:
I'm sure someone has a 10 gallon laying around you could borrow. If you were closer, I do. I treated my tank with Interceptor Spectrum, and everything went well. I did not have crabs or shrimp, but it did wipe out my pod population.
Click to expand...

I think I'm gonna buy a 5 or 10 gallon at petco, can't go wrong with $1 per gallon. Thank You for the offer and advice.

Sisterlimonpot said:
oh and for your second question:

the active ingredient in both are the same (23 mg of milbemycin oxime), sentinel has something extra which is 460mg of lufenuron (which is used to control flea eggs in dogs).

and question 3: 1/2 to 3/4 of a tab
Click to expand...

Sisterlimonpot said:
Crackem,

the reason why you're getting mixed answers is because people have been getting mixed results. some people have no effects on their inverts as some do. of course that may be due to many things like the potency of the treatment, your estimate of the amount of water volume is off, my 3/4 of a pill may be slightly different than your 3/4 of a pill etc.

You really can't give a blanket answer on this one unless you err on the side of caution and say remove them.

We all know how difficult it can be to remove inverts from an established tank. If you can get them out... great, do so. But if you can't then you find yourself in between a rock and a hard place. Do you want to save your corals? or do you want to keep your inverts alive? In that case I would weigh the odds. The corals are doomed if you don't remove the red bugs, however there's a slight chance that the inverts will survive. I'd save the coral and hope the treatment doesn't kill the inverts.
Click to expand...

Very good explanation Thank You, I've had my cleaner shrimp for over 2 years now so I better not take any chances. I've even seen them spawn once when I checked on the tank with a flashlight. Unfortunately I can't take the encrusted corals out to dip cause that would be the preferred method. Thx again for taking the time to respond.

jda said:
Crabs and shrimp need to go to be sure - this was also true with the old interceptor... some would die, some would not. You can most likely get the shrimp to climb into a mason jar with a tasty treat at the bottom. I have caught many like this before in just a few minutes. Works for peppermints too. I have heard of people who apply the med and fish their stubborn shrimp out once they get woozy from the medication - no idea if this works since I never did it.

The 23mg pill will treat 300G of water.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the help, I've made bottle traps before when I tried to catch my Caribbean pistol shrimp that drove me crazy. He never paired up with a goby and I think he tried to kill them instead. Luckily for me he "disappeared" after I tried to catch him. Anyways during that time I was able to catch a ton of snails, crabs, and the cleaner shrimp.

Ps :
I see bite marks on a frag and I'm suspecting AEFW but I have no way to confirm this. It's on a coral that's not encrusted. If I dip it in bayer will I be able to see the AEFW in the bucket?
 
Bayer becomes too milky to see anything unlike other dips. You will need to strain out the water to check for anything.
 
Upon closer inspection the frag with "bite marks" has encrusted onto the rock next to it so I don't think I'm going to remove it.
 
Crackem said:
I've read many threads dealing with in tank red bug treatments but as always there are many replies that say one thing and many that say the opposite. So I have a few questions that I would like to have clarified if possible?

1- I read that I need to remove my 2 cleaner shrimp and my hermit crabs, but not my snails because they do not have an exoskeleton.

Is this true? The reason I ask is because I don't have a qt tank and I'm not sure the best way to do this treatment without one. How can I keep my shrimp and crabs alive for 3-4 weeks?

2nd question is what is the difference between interceptor spectrum and sentinel spectrum? My friend is a vet and says he has sentinel but doesn't know off hand what spectrum is. Which one should I use? I can get sentinel from him.

3rd - How much should I use for about 50-60 total water volume?

Thanks
Click to expand...

1. Snails, cucumbers, cowries, stars are not effected by this treatment. I would remove crabs/hermits/urchins for sure.

2. Sentinel has lufeneron which is used to treat fish lice in Koi. It is a chitin inhibitor. IMHO Sentinel works much better than interceptor. I usually heat the water first to help mix the sentinel better. I have used both as a routine treatment. No pests, but it gives me piece of mind.

3. 1 pill will treat 300-400 gallons.

Go for it...Shut off skimmer, remove media, stop UV, remove socks. I would leave it run in the tank for 24hrs or so and then resume skimming...I like to leave it as long as possible...why not? 3-4 treatments 5-7days apart would be best. If you are going through all the work, why not? It is safe. Just give the tank a rest period before you put the inverts back in...I personally like to wait a couple weeks after treatment to be sure.

Hope this helps man.
 
Crackem said:
Upon closer inspection the frag with "bite marks" has encrusted onto the rock next to it so I don't think I'm going to remove it.
Click to expand...

I would remove that coral and dip it man...What is some encrusting vise the spread of more pests to your other corals?
 
Getting rdy to do this treatment on Saturday. Just made 25 gallons of ro water and will set my bottle trap tomorrow and hopefully catch my 2 cleaner shrimp. Going to remove as many crabs as possible.
How long can I keep them alive in a 5 gallon bucket of pre-treated tank water with an air stone? Also my tank is 78-79 and my apt is 73-76. Do I need a small heater or will they be ok?

Thanks again for all the replies!
 
Crackem, the AEFW are much harder to see. If you see bite marks, you can be sure you have them. I just finished treating for them, but it was a PITA compared to redbugs. Bite marks are about 1.5 - 2.5mm perfectly round circles, usually on the underside of the acro. . Bayer will kill them but not eggs. I dipped weekly for 6 weeks, no quarantine. Good luck!
 
I would dip them if I could. I would probably have to break the tank down and start over which isn't happening. I'm going to use sentinel and see what happens. If I begin seeing a bite mark outbreak after doing the red bug treatment then I will decide then.
 
I could only catch one of my cleaner shrimp. The other one will not take the bait. I used a small water bottle that I cut up and he's to smart for that. Looks like I'm going to have to try a glass jar. Very frustrating.
 
If you cannot get it out, it might get drowsy after you add the med and be easier to catch. You will need to get it out of there ASAP for any hope.
 
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