Red dragon impeller keeps getting unseated from block.

[Blueline12]

My Vertex Alpha Cone skimmer pump went out. I replaced it with a Laguna 3500 that started shutting off for what I thought was no apparent reason after 6 months. I just bought a brand new block from Royal Exclusiv but the same thing is happening.

After taking the impeller out I noticed the impeller appears to become unseated off the block. Specifically the plastic plate below the pinwheel moves off the block apparently causing the pump to shut down. It won't even run more than 12 hours before it shuts off. I thought it was the O-ring so I replaced that but still happens.

Impeller appears fine. Here is a pic. Any suggestions? Thank you in advance. This is driving me nuts.

 

[ClownNut]

check see if the magnet part is still attached to the shaft firmly.

 

[Blueline12]

Yes the magnet is still firmly attached to the shaft.

Thanks.

check see if the magnet part is still attached to the shaft firmly.

 

[slief]

There is a bearing with an o-ring that goes inside the block. That bearing needs to be inserted properly. The o-ring holds the bearing in place and there is a small that the o-ring is captured in within the bearing cavity. If that bearing isn't aligned properly, then the base of the impeller won't be captured. and the magnet along with the rest of the impeller will wobble and can creep up in the motor block. Take a look at your manual under maintenance and there are instructions on the pump assembly which include the bearing. Also, you mentioned Laguna 3500. I assume you meant Laguna 1500??

 

[Blueline12]

Thanks slief. Yes I meant Lagiuna 1500.

The bearing looks ok visually but I will check the manual and re-install it. Hopefully that is it.

Thank you

There is a bearing with an o-ring that goes inside the block. That bearing needs to be inserted properly. The o-ring holds the bearing in place and there is a small that the o-ring is captured in within the bearing cavity. If that bearing isn't aligned properly, then the base of the impeller won't be captured. and the magnet along with the rest of the impeller will wobble and can creep up in the motor block. Take a look at your manual under maintenance and there are instructions on the pump assembly which include the bearing. Also, you mentioned Laguna 3500. I assume you meant Laguna 1500??

 

[slief]

One other comment/question. There is a large o-ring that goes between the large disk below the needle wheel and the motor cavity. That large o-ring helps to keep the impeller snug in the motor body when the volute is installed. I assume you have that ring properly installed when you put the impeller in? I ask because I don't see it in the photo of your impeller. This is the 0-ring that I am talking about.

In this picture, if you look close, you can see the o-ring just below the flange on the large disk below the needle wheel.

 

[Blueline12]

Yes, I have that O-ring in place properly. I even ordered a new one because the old one was stretched and out of shape.

Thanks for the help. I removed the bearing and small O-ring and re-installed it but I don't think that was the problem because it was a brand new block and the same thing happened with the Laguna Block. It must be an impeller issue.


How much play should there be between the needle wheel and the large plastic flange? Mine has a good amount of play. The pic you provided appears to have no play. There is a bearing below the flange that the plastic flange sits on before the magnet. The flange can be pushed down onto the bearing or just lightly sitting on top of the bearing. I wonder if that has something to do with it.

One other comment/question. There is a large o-ring that goes between the large disk below the needle wheel and the motor cavity. That large o-ring helps to keep the impeller snug in the motor body when the volute is installed. I assume you have that ring properly installed when you put the impeller in? I ask because I don't see it in the photo of your impeller. This is the 0-ring that I am talking about.

In this picture, if you look close, you can see the o-ring just below the flange on the large disk below the needle wheel.

 

[Blueline12]

This bearing

 

[slief]

Yes, I have that O-ring in place properly. I even ordered a new one because the old one was stretched and out of shape.

Thanks for the help. I removed the bearing and small O-ring and re-installed it but I don't think that was the problem because it was a brand new block and the same thing happened with the Laguna Block. It must be an impeller issue.


How much play should there be between the needle wheel and the large plastic flange? Mine has a good amount of play. The pic you provided appears to have no play. There is a bearing below the flange that the plastic flange sits on before the magnet. The flange can be pushed down onto the bearing or just lightly sitting on top of the bearing. I wonder if that has something to do with it.

There is that o-ring that goes around the bearing. If you inspect the bearing, you will see that the o-ring sits in a recessed slot on the bearing. On the inside of the smaller cavity that the bearing fits into is also a slot that the outer circumference of the o-ring slips into. If you remove the bearing and look closely into that cavity with a flashlight, you will see what I'm talking about. This keeps the bearing set at the correct level and aligns it within the motor block and also insures that the impeller is in the correct position as far as height goes. It is critical that the bearing be inserted properly. When inserting the bearing, it should almost snap into position and if memory serves me, the top of the flange should almost be flush with the larger opening in the block that the magnet sits in. That is to say that when the impeller is inserted, the bottom of the magnets white part should be essentially touching the top bearing and flush with the bottom of the larger cavity and effectively riding on a cushion of water. My guess is that your issue has to do with the bearing placement.

Now for a couple stupid question. Is this the original impeller? If so, I have seen rare instances where the magnet spins itself on the shaft and can actually move on the shaft when it's not supposed to. If the magnet rode itself up or down on the shaft, that could cause an issue but it should be obvious by looking at the shaft. It does look fine to me but I thought I would mention it. In some cases where the magnet spun on the shaft, users have glued them back to the shaft with success assumning they positioned the magnet in the correct spot. So my next question is, did you buy this skimmer new and if not, was the skimmer running fine for a while before this issue occurred?

One more thought.. How many turns out on the volute are you? If you have the volute closed all the way, I seem to recall it being possible for the inside face of the adjustable volute to touch the impeller. When I had my Alpha 300, I ran my volutes at 1.5 - 2 turns out.

 

[Blueline12]

Yes, it is the original impeller that came with the vertex alpha cone 200. The bearing and small O-ring inside the cavity seem fine. It's a brand new block. The original red dragon 1500 died so I replaced it with a Laguna 1500. Same problem with the Laguna so I bought a new block from royal Exclusiv.

The magnet does not spin on the shaft.

Did you see my pic above with the arrow pointing to that other bearing between the magnet and large plastic flange? What about the play in the flange?

There is that o-ring that goes around the bearing. If you inspect the bearing, you will see that the o-ring sits in a recessed slot on the bearing. On the inside of the smaller cavity that the bearing fits into is also a slot that the outer circumference of the o-ring slips into. If you remove the bearing and look closely into that cavity with a flashlight, you will see what I'm talking about. This keeps the bearing set at the correct level and aligns it within the motor block and also insures that the impeller is in the correct position as far as height goes. It is critical that the bearing be inserted properly. When inserting the bearing, it should almost snap into position and if memory serves me, the top of the flange should almost be flush with the larger opening in the block that the magnet sits in. That is to say that when the impeller is inserted, the bottom of the magnets white part should be essentially touching the top bearing and flush with the bottom of the larger cavity and effectively riding on a cushion of water. My guess is that your issue has to do with the bearing placement.

Now for a couple stupid question. Is this the original impeller? If so, I have seen rare instances where the magnet spins itself on the shaft and can actually move on the shaft when it's not supposed to. If the magnet rode itself up or down on the shaft, that could cause an issue but it should be obvious by looking at the shaft. It does look fine to me but I thought I would mention it. In some cases where the magnet spun on the shaft, users have glued them back to the shaft with success assumning they positioned the magnet in the correct spot. So my next question is, did you buy this skimmer new and if not, was the skimmer running fine for a while before this issue occurred?

One more thought.. How many turns out on the volute are you? If you have the volute closed all the way, I seem to recall it being possible for the inside face of the adjustable volute to touch the impeller. When I had my Alpha 300, I ran my volutes at 1.5 - 2 turns out.

 

[Blueline12]

I have this volute.

 

[slief]

Yes, it is the original impeller that came with the vertex alpha cone 200. The bearing and small O-ring inside the cavity seem fine. It's a brand new block. The original red dragon 1500 died so I replaced it with a Laguna 1500. Same problem with the Laguna so I bought a new block from royal Exclusiv.

The magnet does not spin on the shaft.

Did you see my pic above with the arrow pointing to that other bearing between the magnet and large plastic flange? What about the play in the flange?

There should be a slight amount of play there between the needle wheel and that plate. I don't recall exactly how much but it's a mm or two. I assume the needle wheel is tight on the shaft and hasn't moved?

 

[Blueline12]

Think I found the problem. I took the whole skimmer out to clean it. There was a blockage in the silencer. I think the blockage caused a rise in power consumption and the internal shut off of the pump kicked in. This is also confirmed by the lack of good bubble quality I was getting prior to the cleaning. I just thought it was the Laguna 1500 being under powered before I replaced it.

Thanks for all the help Slief.

There should be a slight amount of play there between the needle wheel and that plate. I don't recall exactly how much but it's a mm or two. I assume the needle wheel is tight on the shaft and hasn't moved?

 

[slief]

Think I found the problem. I took the whole skimmer out to clean it. There was a blockage in the silencer. I think the blockage caused a rise in power consumption and the internal shut off of the pump kicked in. This is also confirmed by the lack of good bubble quality I was getting prior to the cleaning. I just thought it was the Laguna 1500 being under powered before I replaced it.

Thanks for all the help Slief.

Glad to hear it's working correctly!