Red Sea Coral Pro Users

[Reefer54]

So i ordered Red Sea Salt (blue bucket) and recieved Coral Pro (black bucket). A bit bummed as i have to deal with the alk. I have found my corals really like the 9 - 9.5 range.

last Friday, with a 5% wc on Tues (72 hours after these params)
mg: 1300
cal: 450
alk: 10.5

params today
mg: 1200
Cal: 440
Alk: 9.8

SG is kept at 1.026 via ATO
Phos <.05
Nitrate <5
phos and nitrate are tested weekly, i had to pull biopellets a few weeks back as i had no nutrients reading on Red Sea tests and Hanna ULR phos

While i believe that in keeping my params stable, i should not have to worry about adding 12dkh to 9.8 dkh since i do 5% weekly. But when i figure in my dosing which is going to be switched to 2 part from kalk due to evap variance I do not appreciate, i believe i will end up with an ever (though slowly) increasing alk.

I would like to know how many of you circulate a bucket of new water longer than the 4 hours recommended. Also, since i know many of you out there run tanks with alk in the 8 - 9 range, how long do you circulate your new water until the alk lowers to the 8 - 9 range. I much prefer to add new water that is in the disired range. With the Regular Red Sea i could up the alk, but with the Coral Pro, i am stuck with waiting (probably longer than suggested) until the alk falls.

suggestions....

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't think that continued stirring will change alkalinity much relative to not stirring it.

FWIW,I'm not convinced that this is really such a problem. If you just dose slightly less each day everything should work out fine. A 5% water change with 12 dkH water in a 9 dKH tank only boosts the alk to 9.15 dKH. If you just dosed the equivalent of 0.02 dKH less each day, the alk change could look like this:

Day ALk (after dosing each day)
1 9.5 dKH
2 9.48
3 9.46
4 9.42
5 9.40
6 9.38
7 9.36 water change --> 9.49 dKH

 

[Reefer54]

I don't think that continued stirring will change alkalinity much relative to not stirring it.

FWIW,I'm not convinced that this is really such a problem. If you just dose slightly less each day everything should work out fine. A 5% water change with 12 dkH water in a 9 dKH tank only boosts the alk to 9.15 dKH. If you just dosed the equivalent of 0.02 dKH less each day, the alk change could look like this:

Day ALk (after dosing each day)
1 9.5 dKH
2 9.48
3 9.46
4 9.42
5 9.40
6 9.38
7 9.36 water change --> 9.49 dKH

Thanks Randy. that makes sense. I was thinking afterwards that the difference would be very very minimal, it shouldnt be much to correct my dose.

I guess i was just hoping someone would say that if i let it circulate overnight it will miraculaously drop to exactly what i want. lol.


but thanks. have a great weekend.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

 

[gb530]

Hope you guys don't mind me jumping in here. I find it interesting that Red Sea states to not mix longer than the 4 hours. It says right on the bucket: "DO NOT mix for more than 4 hours." Anyone know why that is? Whats the downfall of going over?

I know some people like to mix their salt for 24+ hours and "mature" it. I like to mix mine overnight and use it the next day.

 

[bertoni]

I've never understood why they make that suggestion, although I've thought about it now and then.

 

[jose7878]

For me when I left it mixing for 24 hrs I would get browning in my mixing container and white residue in their as well. So now I heat my ro/di to the temp of the tank , mix in my salt and wait about 3 hrs and then proceed to do my what're change. With no residue in my mixing container.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I can't think of a reason either. If the salt was only stable for 4 hours, that would be a big problem as you obviously also want it stable in the aquarium.

Stuff might settle out of all salt mixes, as noted above, but that's not typically any concern, IMO.

 

[Jpugh73]

I have used it for over a year and have tried every way out there and I found that if I let the Rodi water mix for a day or so then add salt and let that mix for the 4 hours like they state I see to get closer to the numbers that red sea states but if I let it sit say over night I get the same browning and white residue that Jose7878 was talking about.
Now I just follow the directions and in 4 hours from the time I add salt it time for water change simple and easy . I change 15 gals on a 125 dt every 2 weeks and my alk is always 8.4 to 8.8 never really higher and Cal is always In correct range 420 to 440 depending on what test kit I use

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Now I just follow the directions and in 4 hours from the time I add salt it time for water change simple and easy .

You aren't concern that doing it that way just deposits the brown stuff into the tank? I'd rather have it in the barrel.

 

[DiscusHeckel]

There is some explanation in the video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlIHJ02NaKk&feature=youtu.be

I think that Red Sea do not recommend prolonged mixing due to precipitation. For me this does not make sense. I use D-D H2Ocean pro salt, which contains the same base salt as used in Red Sea Pro. I mix my salt over 12 hours and get no precipitation.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the video. Pretty dramatic. It would be nice if they said how hot the mixed one was getting. I don't see mixing itself being important for an already homogeneous solution (except for aeration), but temperature, or the temperature of the pump itself, could be.

It is possible that they formualted it to an unusually low pH,a nd mixing/aeration raises the pH, and encourages precipitation. Anyone ever measure the pH before much mixing/aeration?

FWIW, I never hear my new salt water. I'd also prefer for things that do precipitate to do so before I add it to my tank.

Here's what I find using IO:

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm

from it:


Figure 1. The residue on the bottom of the plastic trash can that I use to mix Instant Ocean. I rarely clean it out. The solid is most likely calcium carbonate.

Solid Residues Remaining After Preparing Artificial Seawater
Most salt mixes leave behind a solid residue when dissolved, although the extent to which this occurs varies from brand to brand. I use Instant Ocean and rarely clean out the 44-gallon trashcan that I mix it in, so a significant residue builds up over time (Figure 1). In preparation for this article I removed some of this solid material, and found that it could be almost completely dissolved in hydrochloric acid with lots of bubbling. This demonstrates that these solids were probably calcium carbonate (CaCO3), perhaps also containing magnesium. Pure magnesium carbonate is undersaturated in seawater (which is detailed in later sections of this article) 1 and should dissolve in marine systems, so it isn't likely to be the precipitated material, although there may be significant magnesium in the calcium carbonate.

Based on the fact that the material exists as sheets that clearly did not arrive in the mix (as opposed to a fine powder which might have), I conclude that at least a significant fraction of this residue formed in the barrel. I cannot, however, rule out the possibility that some solid calcium or magnesium carbonate may have existed in the salt mix and was cemented together by additional precipitation of calcium carbonate during dissolution or storage.

When salt mixes are dissolved, there exist local regions where the salt concentration is very high. In those local regions, the calcium and alkalinity must also be very high. In fact, as seawater is concentrated by evaporation, there is a well-established series of minerals that precipitate as the salinity increases. In this series, calcium and magnesium carbonate are the first to precipitate, appearing at a specific gravity of about 1.140, which is about a 50% solution of salt in water.1 Such conditions may well exist on the bottom of a saltwater reservoir as the salt is dissolving.

With some mixes (but not the Instant Ocean that I use), the initial pH on dissolution may be very high (pH 8.5-9 +). As shown in detail later in this article, pH can play a dominant role in determining the rate of calcium carbonate precipitation, and such a high pH would make it more likely to precipitate.

It has been suggested by some aquarists that some salt mixes may contain anti-caking agents, such as clays. I do not know if this is true, but if it is, they may form part of the residue that is left behind after dissolution.

In order to minimize the formation of insoluble carbonate salts when mixing, the following suggestions may be helpful:

1. Add the salt to a full batch of water, rather than adding water slowly to a large batch of salt. The latter allows a greater time at much higher than natural seawater salinity, which may tend to precipitate calcium and magnesium salts.

2. Stir the mixture vigorously as it is being dissolved.

3. If using a mix with a high initial pH, aerate the mixture as well as stirring it. The aeration will reduce the pH.

 

[AugustWest]

Does this 4 hour mixing apply to the Red Sea blue bucket also or just the coral pro?

 

[Reefer54]

I am just gonna set up bucket and take tests once a day at the same time, including 8hr, 12hr and 16hr the first, starting when the batch hits initial temp. RSCP states to mix the salt in 68 degree water. my indoor temp here is usually around 65.

I'll keep ya updated starting tomorrow. I will test Ph, Mg, Cal, Dkh....anybody want more


Thanks for all the good info everyone.

 

[gb530]

I am just gonna set up bucket and take tests once a day at the same time, including 8hr, 12hr and 16hr the first, starting when the batch hits initial temp. RSCP states to mix the salt in 68 degree water. my indoor temp here is usually around 65.

I'll keep ya updated starting tomorrow. I will test Ph, Mg, Cal, Dkh....anybody want more


Thanks for all the good info everyone.

Awesome! Looking forward to seeing the results! :beer:

 

[SteelerMike]

I used to use RSCP but switched the the regular RS for the same reason. My dad, however, still uses RSCP and I can confirm that the alk will come down over time if you keep mixing it as this is what he has to do when doing water changes. The thing I don't understand is... If it happens in the mixing barrel wouldn't it happen in your tank as well? It actually drops pretty significantly in a day.....

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Does he keep track of whether it gets warm and has he ever measured the pH in it?

 

[GainesvilleReef]

I have been using RSCP for about a year. I followed their mixing guidelines as well. The also state to mix it cold.

I found fresh mixed salt to have a ph of 8.4 pretty consistently and an alkalinity of 10-12. I would always get a lot of the surface scaling precipitant. I would agree that it seems to be unstable but it does seem to provide the higher parameters it advertises. I easily maintained my tank at 400,1400 and 9.5 with it.

I am trying to run my tank at a lower alkalinity so I switched to IO this month. The theory being I can always dose up. I have found the IO to generate less precip. And what precipitant exist is more sand like and easier to manage. The initial ph of IO seems to be around 8.8 before aeration and drops to 8.1-8.2 after. The alkalinity drops to about 4.1 dkh consistently. I do 5% water changes weekly so I can account for this with this dosing.

The IO seems to be cleaner in the mixing container but has terrible/non-existent mixing instructions. I had to rely on reefcentral posts and created my own spg lbs/gallon table like Red Sea gives you to start with. Now that I have the mixing figured out I will probably stay with IO. It is so terribly inexpensive compared to RSCP. It's always on sale somewhere.

 

[IgnatiusRath]

I won't be using RSCP after this bucket is done. I like to always have extra salt mixed and ready in case of emergency and this salt just doesn't stay stable. I've also been having issues with very high MG in my tank since I made the switch. The precipitation on all my mixing equipment is pretty annoying even when I follow the instructions and don't let it mix long.

 

[gb530]

I won't be using RSCP after this bucket is done. I like to always have extra salt mixed and ready in case of emergency and this salt just doesn't stay stable. I've also been having issues with very high MG in my tank since I made the switch. The precipitation on all my mixing equipment is pretty annoying even when I follow the instructions and don't let it mix long.

Yeah, my mag is off the charts as well! :hmm4: