Reef Crystals and Alk

[Jet Black]

I've got a few questions regarding alk... I've been having issues with RC only being around 5dKH. I mix batches of 50 gallon bags for my 34 gallon tank, so there is quite a bit of time before it is used up. I have a heater along with a powerhead on the bottom and the hose pump recirculating 24/7. The reason may be precipitation because I have a nasty brown film covering everything but I'm not exactly sure if that's it.

I've heard of people getting bad boxes and the parameters being way off which may be my case. This may be the answer to all my issues I've been having because this 200 gallons worth box has lasted me a loooong time.

My calcium reactor is now fully operational and is keeping the tank between 9-10 dKH. I'm debating just dumping (Maybe use it to flush the toilet ) the ~35 gallons I have and just trying the last bag I have and hoping for the best.

1)What could be the reason of the low alk in the freshwater?
2)Is there anything I could be doing wrong?
3)Is my dKH good for a LPS-SPS dominated tank?
4)What should I do with the low alk water?

Any help is appreciated,
Jusitn

 

[Wills612]

Any chance your salinity of the fresh sw is low?

 

[bfliflet]

Are you positive it's not a low salinity problem? I get the same brown film in my 50g garbage can as well. It hasn't seemed to bother the corals but I suspect bacterial or waste from bacteria. I scrubbed out the garbage can with stiff brush and it comes of easily but would rather not intentionally add it to my tank. I normally test my RC Alk at 10-10.5 dKH. I go through a 200g box each month and all have tested similarly. Don't rule out the salt though. Bad batches can bite any manufacturer.

Your tank is much smaller so I'd suggest tossing the batch if you're sure your alk is testing that low. A 15$ bag of salt is nothing compared to losing your livestock... I havent tossed it because of the residue but I clean my garbage can monthly. A 50g bucket is only a ~15% water change for me so I don't sweat it.

 

[psykobowler]

What test kit are you using? RC is high in alk and ca. I normally use the whole 50 gallon bag with the 45 gallon brute trash can. It mixes 45gallons at 1.025 sg. If you are mixing less using cups you might be dealing with the salt settling. That is why I use the whole bag every time. I know a lot of people are blaming salt on issues but I never had a bad batch knock on wood.

 

[Jet Black]

I have the barrel set up for 50 gallons so that I don't have to measure every time. I do have a low salinity problem and am planning on lowering the float before the next batch. For testing I microwaved the water so that it brought up the salinity from 1.023 to 1.027 and the alk tested 5.6 on my Red Sea test kit. The kit is a little old but the tank would be lower if it were off.

Thanks for the quick replies.

 

[jthao]

Edit: noticed u using whole bag at once.
I wouldn't toss it out though, I'd just bring alk up with 2 part alk.

 

[bfliflet]

If you're mixing a large batch, make sure the water is thoroughly mixed especially from the bottom. I've had salt water look mixed but had two distinct zones - virtual fresh water and hyper salty water. Heavier solutions can settle at the bottom as does cooler water. The latter causes 'thermoclines' for scuba divers where simply dropping 3-5 feet causes 2-3degree or more temperature drop.

Edit: noticed u using whole bag at once.
I wouldn't toss it out though, I'd just bring alk up with 2 part alk.

If it was low, what was the missing alk replaced with? What about ionic balance? Our only alarms for a bad batch are atypical measurements... or massive dieoff.

 

[79chopperdr]

Here's my 2 cents buddy. All just MY opinion...

-brown residue is common when mixing RC, no ill effects ever for me.

-try to think of water tests as reference checks more than actual tests. What I mean is test kits vary from brand to brand but also from the person performing the test since most are dependent on filling, dropping or judging a color. We all will do those individual tasks different causing different results.

-pick your test kit, salt and method. If your tank looks amazing and your tested value on Alk is 99 DKH, then 99 is your target. (Ridiculous example) the point is numbers are only important to check your stuff and your method.

-find somebody that has a successful LPS/SPS tank like your shooting for. They might be the best person to start shoplifting techniques from :reading:

Good luck

 

[Apisto]

Here's my 2 cents buddy. All just MY opinion...

-brown residue is common when mixing RC, no ill effects ever for me.

-try to think of water tests as reference checks more than actual tests. What I mean is test kits vary from brand to brand but also from the person performing the test since most are dependent on filling, dropping or judging a color. We all will do those individual tasks different causing different results.

-pick your test kit, salt and method. If your tank looks amazing and your tested value on Alk is 99 DKH, then 99 is your target. (Ridiculous example) the point is numbers are only important to check your stuff and your method.

-find somebody that has a successful LPS/SPS tank like your shooting for. They might be the best person to start shoplifting techniques from :reading:

Good luck

:thumbsup:

 

[robert s b.]

I have that brown residue all in my mixing tank, with no adverse affects. Also take your heater out, because heat will favor precipitation of calcium carbonate, which is that brown residue.
Your dKh is pretty low, mine comes out to be around 8-9 @ 1.025-26.

maybe check your Salinity.

 

[Jet Black]

I don't have two part alk left over and it is only ~35 gallons worth so I would rather not risk the chance of something else being off. The way I have it set up should mix the water very well, powerhead circulating the bottom, submersible pump sucking off of the bottom and dropping it off at the top of the barrel. The salinity IS low in the barrel but I heated it up to evaporate salinity from 1.023 to 1.027 to take the test.

I'm glad that the residue is normal, I wasn't too worried but I just wanted to check. Ill also add a timer to only turn the heater on on water change days. I think I will mix a new small batch with the last bag, if it comes out fine then Ill fill the barrel. Ill keep tabs on it over the next few weeks to see if something is happening over time. I have just been noticing that after water changes that nothing gives the "I'm happy!" look people describe but its more of a "Ikgh what'd you do?" look.

 

[Jet Black]

Mixed the last bag in a 5 gal bucket, at 1.027 the dKH came out to about 8.7. Seems that the last two bags were duds. Ill check it periodically through out the next few weeks to see if anything changes.

 

[greenhead]

I do believe there are some bad batches going around. Especially from a certain LFS. You know what your doing Justin. Dont trust it if its that far off.

Also the brown crud is actually a clay that they use in reef crystals to make the product keep consistancy and not clump up on ya. With all the stuff they put in there it would turn to rocks if they didn't use it. Other than having to clean your mixing pump more often, there will be no other ill effects. Like stated above, if your gonna be using this stuff at 1.026 or 25 your gonna be using about a whole bag to 43-45 gallons.

 

[Jet Black]

So because the five gallon mixed up well I started a new batch, to fix my low salinity in the barrel I zip tied a small plastic jar to the float so it raises about 5" above where it would have normally. This gives me about 1.025 but I have yet to check the whole barrel for alk. Ill come back with the test later this afternoon.

 

[Jet Black]

So after forgetting for a few days, I tested alk again.
5.6
Tested the tank for alk and it was equally intriguing.
14

I have no idea how the barrel loosing alk, other then the gross brown stuff, it does not appear that there is any precipitation, nor do I know what would be causing it if there was.

In regards to the tank, I became a little alarmed because I thought for sure that everything would be supper irritated (just got home, didn't really look into the tank when taking the sample). Every thing is puffed up and looks super happy. I guess that I found the level that my test kit reads that my tank likes...

 

[bfliflet]

It's definitely unsettling when you can't trust your test kits (or testing methodology). I like the idea of calibrating based on inhabitant happiness. Works until they're unhappy...

 

[Jet Black]

I'm still confused on this, tested with an Elos test kit this time. Only slightly different results of 13.5 and 5.5. I just cant figure out as to why it would be fine when first mixed and then drop without any change other then time?

I'm not sure if I should use the batch of salt water I have, I already have a fish tank sitting in the side yard filled with the last batch of bad water. I also bought a box of Reef Crystals as a back up for if something goes wrong last week. I'm pretty sure that it would be fine to use but if its not then I can't return it.

As to the tank being super high in alk, I haven't seen all my corals look so happy at once.

 

[silentscream]

How long does it take to drop from 13.5 to 5.5?

This used to happen to me when using reef crystals because I was letting it mix and heat 24/7 in a brute container for 1-2 weeks before fully used. I blamed it on precipitation at the time because my pump and heater were caked.

 

[Jet Black]

The 13.5 was what my test kit said my tank was. I mixed the barrel on Sunday, so it only took a max of 4-5 days for the alk to drop. I did notice that even without a heater and being in the garage in the morning it was quite warm though.

I'm not sure how heat would make the alk precipitate that fast, and the bottom of the barrel is relatively clean compared to the other batches I've made.

 

[greenhead]

I think this might be a Reef crystals deal. Tested a new batch of water last night after 3 hours of mixing. Alk was at 6 dkh. In the past RC always tested high at around 10 dkh. So Jet your not alone. After the water change I have noticed that my torts are all very upset and developing slime on the tips. Tested tank levels and they are fine. Dkh at 8.4 which was 8.5 before the water change. But I only did a % 10 wc. It does seem that I am getting more brown crud than normal. Notice the longer I mix the worse it is. Now I know the brown stuff isn't a big deal and is only a bi product of the clay they use to keep the salt from clumping. But it's getting out of control.

One thing seems to stick out. I have only started to see these issues since I started purchasing RC from exotic and Aquarium Depot. I know they buy large amounts of this stuff together buy the pallet to cut down on cost. But I am starting to think there is a reason they are getting such a good deal and we are ultimately paying the price.

Ultimately I think it's time to go back to buying my supplies from John at your reef as I never had an issue. And we'll to me it's worth the couple extra bucks to not have to deal with the issues.