Reef nutrition fridgated doser w/ saltwater flush

[goleafsgo]

Hi guys I've been reading up the the thread in the nps coral forms about a continuous doser for live food and was looking to modify it alittle. I dont like how the current method has a water constantly recirculating through the fridge. it just seem that if something goes wrong your tank could suffer. I would rather my autofeeder or floor suffer vs my tank.

Keep in mind that this is part of my Fully Automated nano build which will use auto water changes using an apex dos pump along with an apex control to monitor and regulate tank salinity. My goal is to eliminate weekly maintenance and keep monthly maintenance to a minimum.

My current auto feeder design will feed twice aday 3 different types of live food, then flush the tubes with clean salt water. water will then be extracted from the tank via water change. I will have to see over acouple weeks how salinity is effected to start to dial in on how much water to flush with vs take away.


the feeder will work by having a 4 channel dosing pump inside a fridge along with 3 reef nutrition products. I will drill 4 holes in a pvc pipe and set it so it is slanted and leads to my return pump. the end of the pvc pipe will be above the waters surface. Once the 3 nr products are fed to the tank, a largish amount of saltwater will be pumped from the 4th channel to flush out any remaining food in the pvc pipe. water will then be taken out of the tank via dos apex. I am also thinking about using the dos apex pump to run water changes through the pvc pipe so that i can know exactly how much water is going into the tank and i can take the same amount out.

see attachment for diagram

 

[dkeller_nc]

Hmm - I don't see a question in your post. But presuming that you'd like comments, here's a few pitfalls to consider and suggestions to mitigate them.

The first is with the use of the PVC pipe as a feeder line. 1/2" PVC has enough internal volume to where I'd think you're going to have a hard time flushing it with enough salt/freshwater at sufficient velocity to completely clear it of the Reef Nutrition products. RN's coral foods would decay really quickly, and I foresee and rotting food issue with a setup like this.

The second issue is the lines that are going from the RN bottles to the dosing pump. Without a way to flush these, I think you're going to have a rather constant issue with clogs in the lines.

A couple of solutions come to mind; the first is to substitute narrow tubing for your intended feed line so that pumping a set volume of flush water through it will have a high velocity and will completely clear the line of retained coral food. The second modification I'd consider is to use a set of switching valves to flush the lines - you could arrange a valve so that after the feeding cycle, freshwater is pumped from a reservoir back through the feed tubes into the food reservoirs in the refrigerator. The Apex DOS pump would be ideal for this, since it allows reversing the pump's rotation and therefore its flow direction.

 

[GreshamH]

dkeller_nc is right, you don't want to use the PVC "slide" that way. You will get feed build up as I doubt you can get enough force to flush enough off. Thinner tubing will allow the feed to move faster through the tubing.

However, I would advice against back feeding freshwater into the Reef Nutrition feeds as that will change their pH, which is the main preservation of them. Ideally you would use 2 DOS units to deliver 3 - 4 RN feeds. DOS can suck back in feed from the line, so it can dose straight to the tank itself. Be sure to have the exit tubing from the doser to feed in front of your return pipe or by a powerhead.

If you can, feed more often and feed less. Twice a day on an automated system seems like such a shame to me.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to email me back at techsupport@reedmariculture.com
I've advised on countless projects like this, being the Reef Nutrition resident reef geek.

 

[acesq]

Gresham, sorry to jump in here, but since you are the resident Reef Nutrition reef geek, I have a quick question for you:

Using a DOS in the manner you described, is there a problem with the DOS to tank line being 4 or 5 feet long? Obviously, I would have to take into account the total volume of the line to calculate the back flush on time, but will the amount of feed in the line cause pressure issues that the pump can't overcome? I would use the standard 1/4 inch tubing.

 

[drsalomon]

Another solution is to install salt water compatible solenoid on the salt water line from the sump so that flow is not continuous. I split my flow off the return throught the solenoid and then through the venturi in the fridge and then dumped directly into display into mp10 pump that distributes food in tank

 

[GreshamH]

Gresham, sorry to jump in here, but since you are the resident Reef Nutrition reef geek, I have a quick question for you:

Using a DOS in the manner you described, is there a problem with the DOS to tank line being 4 or 5 feet long? Obviously, I would have to take into account the total volume of the line to calculate the back flush on time, but will the amount of feed in the line cause pressure issues that the pump can't overcome? I would use the standard 1/4 inch tubing.

I don't see why it would be an issue. The actual density of the product shouldn't have any effect on such a short line. I just sent them an email to confirm and I'll report back what I hear.

 

[GreshamH]

Terence (promptly) responded:

The only issues surround what it is that he is moving through the lines. The exit holes on the DŌS are big compared to other dosing systems, but it is not impossible to get a clog there.

They could certainly calibrate a "œdose" and a "œflush" by measuring the lines and it would be pretty accurate. But, it would not really be a flush per se because every time he would pull water from the tank back in it would not flush until the next feed cycle. So there would be still a mix of nutrient material in the line along with the flush water.

One would have to do something a bit more complicated to do an actual line flush. I would envision using a tee and two solenoid valves and a maybe meter long section of tubing inside the refrigerator. That way they could feed, retract back the food until it was at the solenoid valve, close the valve, open the other, and then go back and forth two or three times.

 

[acesq]

Terence (promptly) responded:

Thank you! I'm going to quick and dirty it without the solenoid valve set up and see how it works. I'll experiment with different feed and flush times to see what works best to clear the line of feed. My guess is the times should be identical, but I'll see.

 

[slief]

Gresham, sorry to jump in here, but since you are the resident Reef Nutrition reef geek, I have a quick question for you:

Using a DOS in the manner you described, is there a problem with the DOS to tank line being 4 or 5 feet long? Obviously, I would have to take into account the total volume of the line to calculate the back flush on time, but will the amount of feed in the line cause pressure issues that the pump can't overcome? I would use the standard 1/4 inch tubing.

No issues running a long line with Dos let alone using it for feeding. I am using Dos for my autofeeder and use a combination of PE Mysis and Hikari baby mysis. I autom feed once a day with this to augment my other daily feeds and it works great! I also use it on occasion to spot feed via the Feed button. I only keep enough food in the jar for 3 days and refill on the 3rd day dumping what's left into the tank. I've even used well mixed LRS Reef Frenzy in my feeder but stopped out of an abundance of caution.

The nice thing about Dos is it will run forward and backwards which is great for the flush cycle and can be easily dialed in to not add much if any salt water back into the food container which in my case is a glass jar.


<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kkmuvTREK6k?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[AirForceAquariu]

There is someone in the large tank forum (yes I lurk there regularly) who has a system for this that has been running for several years. He is more than happy to share the design. I will send it your way if I can find it!

Found it! It was when of our TOTM reefers Elliot!
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23597759#post23597759

It is discussed several times throughout!

 

[Rustyprop]

No issues running a long line with Dos let alone using it for feeding. I am using Dos for my autofeeder and use a combination of PE Mysis and Hikari baby mysis. I autom feed once a day with this to augment my other daily feeds and it works great! I also use it on occasion to spot feed via the Feed button. I only keep enough food in the jar for 3 days and refill on the 3rd day dumping what's left into the tank. I've even used well mixed LRS Reef Frenzy in my feeder but stopped out of an abundance of caution.

The nice thing about Dos is it will run forward and backwards which is great for the flush cycle and can be easily dialed in to not add much if any salt water back into the food container which in my case is a glass jar.


<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kkmuvTREK6k?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The sharper image wine bottle cooler was my only missing piece.
Now I can set up something similar with my dos

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Could you instead have a small pump in the sump pump water through the slide to flush it? Then you could have it run longer at higher velocity and not change the salinity of the DT?

Just a thought

 

[Rustyprop]

Great idea. I will be following this thread close

 

[firemountain]

I am n the early stages of building my DIY refrigerator auto feeder. I had spoken with Gresham over the phone about a month ago. I would listen to everything he says.....esp. Since he works for Reef Nutrition.

The biggest thing to remember is that you cannot mix their products together. I saw a design where 3 products were drawn separately from a doser in the frig, but all were all tied into one main line that went into a Venturi injector. This design allowed each of their products to be in direct contact with each other sitting in the tube line. Not good.

Gonna follow along to see what Gresham has to say and comment on

 

[GreshamH]

FWIW I left Reed Mariculture, the parent company of Reef Nutrition, a couple weeks ago. I manage the aquaculture department of a large aquaponic grower now

but that doesn't mean I no longer know reef stuff.

I wouldn't mix RN products together for several reasons. I'd go with the multi injector/venturi method if at all possible.

 

[firemountain]

Gresham.....thanks again for your input. Sad that you left Reed Mariculture, but it sounds like your are happy with your move and new position. Your knowledge in the field is truly impressive and members here can learn a lot from you.