power boat jim
Well-known member
Yes on your home page there is a place to create a photo album.
Reef Tank on a Sail Boat
- Thread starter crazzyreefer
- Start date
Yes on your home page there is a place to create a photo album.
crazzyreefer
New member
The Boat is docked in Vallejo Ca, We are doing most of the work ourselves, the quote to repaint it was over 100k... to do the basic work they wanted 1.2mil (absent the Commercial galley and steering station mezzanine addition) I owned many companies, and have more skill that the average Joe.... Removing the mast and restructuring is not something I took lightly, but in the end the boat will be stronger and set up the way I want it... and it under 1.2 mill with the best of equipment and craftsmanship....
crazzyreefer
New member
jcolley
Member
Subbing to follow along. I've spent the last 18 years at sea on and off again, my wife thinks I'm nuts that I want to buy a boat when I retire in a few years.
I don't know what level of continuous water change you are after, but for energy conservation, you might consider a large influent holding tank which is well insulated and heated and slowing the exchange rate for the DT. This would allow less requirement for the heat exchange system to run continually. Additionally, don't let the warm cooling water from the diesels go to waste when running either. Add a heat exchanger of some sort and let that warm water take some of the energy demand off the in-tank heating.
Water parameter stability is a big benefit in a reef system, so the changes in salinity, nutrients, etc may play against you. I like the idea of using NSW, but if the parameters of your NSW are constantly changing, continual water exchange may pose less than ideal.
A low power heat pump may be an option for heating as well, the efficiency would probably beat that of electric heating elements if there is a low delta between local water temp and tank system temp.
Also, you have a lot of inertia and sail area, perhaps a hydro turbine generator to supplement the system while in motion.
For the heel, before reading much of the thread, my thought was to have the vertical height of the tank at least 200% of the visible viewing height. This would allow for at least 45 degree heel with some margin for error.
For the fish, I wouldn't imagine that any motion of the ship, whether heeled over or being pitched by sea state would have much effect on them. They get pushed all over the place in tidal areas by the swell.
From a submarine background, my perspective is on minimizing the electrical load requirements to maximize battery life. Then again, I suppose a pressurized water reactor plant is beyond the scope of your build.
At any rate, definitely a cool idea full of logistical and engineering challenges. I had the same thought on a much smaller scale in a Sabre of some sort, but I think the notion of maintaining both a reef and a boat would result in a new found single (i.e. divorced) life for me.
I don't know what level of continuous water change you are after, but for energy conservation, you might consider a large influent holding tank which is well insulated and heated and slowing the exchange rate for the DT. This would allow less requirement for the heat exchange system to run continually. Additionally, don't let the warm cooling water from the diesels go to waste when running either. Add a heat exchanger of some sort and let that warm water take some of the energy demand off the in-tank heating.
Water parameter stability is a big benefit in a reef system, so the changes in salinity, nutrients, etc may play against you. I like the idea of using NSW, but if the parameters of your NSW are constantly changing, continual water exchange may pose less than ideal.
A low power heat pump may be an option for heating as well, the efficiency would probably beat that of electric heating elements if there is a low delta between local water temp and tank system temp.
Also, you have a lot of inertia and sail area, perhaps a hydro turbine generator to supplement the system while in motion.
For the heel, before reading much of the thread, my thought was to have the vertical height of the tank at least 200% of the visible viewing height. This would allow for at least 45 degree heel with some margin for error.
For the fish, I wouldn't imagine that any motion of the ship, whether heeled over or being pitched by sea state would have much effect on them. They get pushed all over the place in tidal areas by the swell.
From a submarine background, my perspective is on minimizing the electrical load requirements to maximize battery life. Then again, I suppose a pressurized water reactor plant is beyond the scope of your build.
At any rate, definitely a cool idea full of logistical and engineering challenges. I had the same thought on a much smaller scale in a Sabre of some sort, but I think the notion of maintaining both a reef and a boat would result in a new found single (i.e. divorced) life for me.
crazzyreefer
New member
I have the opposite wife, It is her tank, Well not the one on the boat, The one in the house, So the boat one will be a surprise, We spent a small fortune on the reef in the house and we both know that its only temporary. We both love the water, and she would live on the boat now if I didn't tear it apart. While I can design, make and or fix anything, she can not fix anything including dinner if her life depended on it, (she will agree with this statement) That will give her a reason not to throw me over board,(or divorce me). As this thread continues so does the project scope and the re-engineering of the systems, A holding tank will not be necessary, the water coming in will only be 2-5 gal per day, unless I lose a great deal of water due to being healed or strong seas. I will have a controller with a salinity probe, and metering pump, My GHL controller can do this. I can adjust the salinity by adding high salinity water on one pump, and RODI on the other, alk and calk on the remaining pumps. So now I'm thinking of using the rear of the tank for a ATS, and install large fixed ports for sun to shine on to the ATS screen. A small lift off cover from the top will give me access to the screen and this will take much less electricity to pump the water only 4' or so back into the tank, I will still need a high flow pump or two in the tank, As for a heat exchanger for intake water,, I will utilize the heat generated from the Ice maker that sits directly under the tank, it is constantly on, and is a great amount of heat to be offset. As slow as the water comes in it won't affect the tank temp if only off a few degrees. The boat does 10-12 knots under motor and 6-16 knots under sail, it may go faster, but I can't cant control it past that speed. I have a hydro Generator (prop Generator) a 13.5 Diesel Gen Set, installing a 4kw Diesel Gen Set, and have a Hydraulic generator when I have the hydraulics engaged, two Large alternators, 3 banks of batteries, 2 battery chargers, and I had 2 large solar panels that I removed and will install 6-8 large panels in its place and a wind generator. Redundancy is the key with a vessel of this size. The cabin was heated with a forced air system, but I find that it was too dangerous, it would burn you and other things if left near the heater, and be freezing in lower quarters, I am installing a Hydro heating system, this is diesel and can be controlled by the same controller if it got too cold in the cabin, same as the AC units.
FWIW UV isn't really something you should consider for dealing with ballast water. I have a lot of customers doing ballast water remediation projects, and all have moved well beyond UV as its fairly ineffective for such a use. The research projects range from NOAA, to DOE, to DOD, and even little NGO's.
Ptyochromis
New member
Why can't you just store the old tank water with your waste water and dispose of it at port?
power boat jim
Well-known member
If its like most other boats, the black water holding tanks are of very limited capacity. There are no tanks for grey water, it is simply discharged overboard.
crazzyreefer
New member
There is 4 gray water tanks and 3 black water tanks on board, We also have a Black water sanitizer that electrically turns it all into chlorine and then it discharges over board or into a back water bag, this is where I will route the overflow line from the tank, the reasons for the black and gray is the place that it used to be docked didn't allow any waste water overboard, so now there is three way valves on ever fitting and locks to keep someone from switching them and the coasties off our a...s is we get inspected,
We are also installing a 100gal wine bladder that should never get confused with the waste lines.
We are also installing a 100gal wine bladder that should never get confused with the waste lines.
davidfrances
New member
The Enterprise NCC-1701D had an aquarium in the Captain's ready room, so why not?
LOL...thought the same thing!
I have no real boat knowledge, but will be following along, as this is an amazing build and fantastic thread. Seems like you have the knowledge, money and ability to make it happen, keep up posted.
this thread needs more pics!
Ptyochromis
New member
WHAT? Is this jargon or a literal bladder?
A literal bladder. Most use them for water or fuel, some mass quantities of wine :lol:
crazzyreefer
New member
There is a lot of work to be done prior to the installation of a reef tank, we are removing the mast and deck stepping it, The yacht facility that we are close to tried remove it and then thought better about it due to length of the mast and their max crane ability, unfortunately to have the mast removed we had to pull the secondary steering station and mast supports, and engine controls, now if we are to remove it all of this must be reinstalled to get it to another, we are doing the calculations on the crane at the Yacht club, if this works I will just owe a lot of rounds of drinks, if not I have to put it all back together and then take it to a larger facility.
We collect wine, but will not have the room for several hundred bottles, that coupled with the officials taking what they want, disappears when you can't remove the item, We are set up for soft drinks the same way, for the same reason, you can offer them a drink, Soda, Beer, Wine but it gets dispensed in a paper cup. We will be removing the margarita machines, and replacing it with the fish tank.
We collect wine, but will not have the room for several hundred bottles, that coupled with the officials taking what they want, disappears when you can't remove the item, We are set up for soft drinks the same way, for the same reason, you can offer them a drink, Soda, Beer, Wine but it gets dispensed in a paper cup. We will be removing the margarita machines, and replacing it with the fish tank.
Let's see if I got this right, you have a nice cutter rigged sloop with a keel stepped mast, and you want to convert it to deck stepped 
:eek1:
Works in small lightly rigged sailboats, and anything bigger than trailer sailor (and even some of them) will utilize a compression post to prevent the rig from caving in the deck. A rig the size of yours would need certainly need a compression post, and that takes up as much room below deck as the mast.
:eek1: Works in small lightly rigged sailboats, and anything bigger than trailer sailor (and even some of them) will utilize a compression post to prevent the rig from caving in the deck. A rig the size of yours would need certainly need a compression post, and that takes up as much room below deck as the mast.
power boat jim
Well-known member
That is exactly my feeling also, its why my boat is named "Never Again II"
crazzyreefer
New member
Let's see if I got this right, you have a nice cutter rigged sloop with a keel stepped mast, and you want to convert it to deck stepped
Works in small lightly rigged sailboats, and anything bigger than trailer sailor (and even some of them) will utilize a compression post to prevent the rig from caving in the deck. A rig the size of yours would need certainly need a compression post, and that takes up as much room below deck as the mast.
Not quite Keel steeped, they mid decked steeped it over the electrical panel, so while it did work, it was dangerous to be done in that manor, we will have 2 compression 4 compression posts with the mast sitting on a beam that will be 24" on each side." We have minus tides for the next couple of days, I will try to pull it then and get this project started.
