ReefKeeper vs Apex

[5pacey]

Sounds like a battle of apple vs pc..lol. I have a reef keeper lite and have been happy with it. Sure apex units are nice but I didn't see the added value unless you are running a system with specific model power heads

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

Sort of but not really... a lot here has to do w/customer service and average reliability. Also w/missing features alike salinity/conductivity, web interface and plain bad design like galvanic isolation on probes (not being there in DA's case). DA's been promising and "testing" or making and then recalling these things over the past 2 years... And their CS and the way they respond to issues when they come up is just plain idiotic. Nobody has a problem w/them in principle, in theory their fly trap just does things a little different, but in practice it's how they go about their business and deal w/public as well as the fact that their crap doesn't work half the time is what turns people away. I went w/them at 1st too, and I don't give up easy once I set a direction, but they did "manage to hand me over to Neptune" as a customer and tend to keep doing it a lot w/others.

Spacey

 

[vbsaltydog]

Ummm...yeah. I have researched plenty, and have owned all of the controllers made by each. Just look at the poll at the top of this thread to see which one wins out. Yes, "2 or 3" was a little bit of an exaggeration- I was hoping that didn't need to be pointed out. However, I can say with complete confidence that there are far more people switching from DA to Neptune than the other way around. There have been countless threads here on RC, and there is almost never someone saying they switched from Neptune. Neptune simply offers more features and better service...I know, I have experienced both.

I'm glad you like your Apex. I never said there was anything wrong with it. I like my RK and I didn't vote in the poll so the numbers may be skewed by more Apex owners voting.

BS ... put up some links to prove it. Complete rubbish. Dunno where you've been searching buddy but it sure as hell isn't internet on planet earth. If you spend more than 5 min looking around it becomes blatantly obvious that DA and their crappy little operation with the shitty little products that it results in , have been loosing customers faster than a speeding bullet. Yes there are those who buy their crap but most of them do it because they are not informed and very quickly realize the depth of the swamp they just stepped into. Then they stay w/them only because they are too lazy to sell and go w/someone else. But this only lasts as long as their components don't fail, which is not that long.

Spacey :debi:

I already did my research. My post was to the OP who was looking for advise and I advised them to do their own research. There are TONS of people that are very happy with their Reefkeepers and prefer it over the Apex and its not hard to find them. Sounds like you are scorned judging by your language usage. There are both satisfied and dissatisfied owners of both products.

Sounds like a battle of apple vs pc..lol. I have a reef keeper lite and have been happy with it. Sure apex units are nice but I didn't see the added value unless you are running a system with specific model power heads

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

Apple is better

I made my point that the OP should do proper unbiased research, then see both products in a real world environment, and choose what THEY like and ignore the nay sayers for either product. They are both good solutions with similar functions.

 

[5pacey]

I already did my research. My post was to the OP who was looking for advise and I advised them to do their own research. There are TONS of people that are very happy with their Reefkeepers and prefer it over the Apex and its not hard to find them. Sounds like you are scorned judging by your language usage. There are both satisfied and dissatisfied owners of both products.

Good for you, I hope it keeps working for you, really... and maybe you won't need to deal w/DA's silliness. But... the guy is asking for opinions - hence opinion poll (ehem) - which is how he is doing his research. You telling him to do his own research is a waste of space in this thread - he is doing it and saying for him to look for himself doesn't really bring any new information does it?

As for me being scorned, you are damn right I am - I am scorned by DA - their practices, their "products" and their BS. Whenever anybody asks for an opinion I am more than happy to give mine and am willing to back it up w/my experience with both the ridiculous outfit that DA is and a real company with a great product and customer service to back it - which Neptune is. Great many folks, based on searching the internet now and at the time when I had to go through my ordeal w/DA about a year or so ago, appear to share my experience. So forgive me that your assertion to the contrary sounds like rubbish to me... I've been paying attention to this subject for about two years now and know what I am talking about. And as another poster said it... just look at the poll results.

Oh and why wouldn't you vote in the poll if you have an opinion? Didn't it occur to you that this was the original question asked in this thread? You thought that saying to go and do research was more informative?

Spacey :uhoh2:

 

[vbsaltydog]

Let me clarify again to the OP. Go and see both systems in a real world environment and choose the one that works best for YOU.

I dont want to beat a dead horse here but I will say it again, there are plenty of people that run a Reefkeeper and are happy with it so if you prefer the Reefkeeper after seeing a demo of both systems locally through a LFS or local reef club, then there is no reason not to get the Reefkeeper. If you prefer the Apex after seeing it locally then get the Apex.

They are both good products with similar functions.

 

[Dr. Reef]

guys lets clear this again. i have multiple tanks with multiple DA products. i find the reliability on DA products low and i find customer service zero. this is my personal experience over time, now i have not used any neptune products so i cant speak for them but for me to switch over i have to sell everything i have owned over 7 yrs to shift over to Neptune which itself is headache enough not to mention hundreds of $$$$$

 

[vbsaltydog]

OK. I have a question for those that have reliability issues with DA products, which I am not debating your experiences. I have my RK control my lights based on timing, ATO based on float switch, heater based on temp, alarms based on pH, temp, etc and everything works fine.

What do you mean when you say that DA products are not reliable? Are you timed lights failing to turn on/off? Are your heaters running above the set threshold? or chillers below the set threshold? etc.

 

[Shard]

I found many people that had the Apex and went to the RK

I call rubbish on this as well. I have only ever seen two people go from the Apex to the RK line, but on the other hand I have seen 25-30+ dump the RKE in favor of the Apex. And this statement includes all other boards I frequent as well. If I were to go back over my post history and find all the threads just on RC, I bet I could provide 20 or more examples to back this up. If you were to include dissatisfied current RK owners and those with buyers remorse, then that number would go up even more.

I am one who is an RKE to Apex convert, as are about 5 others posting in this thread. I have two RKEs, two RKLs, an RK2, and two Apex units. The Apex is by far the superior product.

There are just as many advocates of the RK as there are of the Apex and anyone who takes the time to do proper impartial research will see that.

False again, any time spent doing impartial research will show you, again, that the vast majority prefer the Apex. The poll at the top of this thread staring you in the face is one clear example.

I didn't vote in the poll so the numbers may be skewed by more Apex owners voting.

So when the facts you clearly see don't agree with your assessment, then the facts are wrong? This poll is open to anyone on RC, it isn't setup to favor Apex owners, you should vote as well, but your vote isn't going to change the fact that the Apex is favored 3:1 over the RKE/L.

James' statement that only two or three people total have switched from the Apex to the RK shows the limits of his research.

I have been on this board for years, and reef controllers are one of the main topics I consistently talk about or search for. Like I said previously, I have only seen 2 as well. If you want to back your statement up with some proof in the form of threads, lets see them.

OK. I have a question for those that have reliability issues with DA products, which I am not debating your experiences. I have my RK control my lights based on timing, ATO based on float switch, heater based on temp, alarms based on pH, temp, etc and everything works fine.

What do you mean when you say that DA products are not reliable? Are you timed lights failing to turn on/off? Are your heaters running above the set threshold? or chillers below the set threshold? etc.

I am happy to answer your questions. I have had the RKE for over 3 years, so I will just cover a few of the issues.

1) Errors in pH readings when more than one SL1 is used (engineering problem where the SL1 lacks galvanic isolation)
2) Modules getting 'lost' (PC4s and other modules would randomly disappear)
3) Headunit failure (the headunit would freak out and just go blank)
4) Lost communication with the Net module (plus the email bombing that would occur when an alarm went off)
5) Having to reflash modules a few times for the firmware to take
6) The fact that the SL2 was out for over a year before a working Salinity probe was even close to being produced.
7) The 1+ year long saga for those who owned said un-functional salinity probes.
8) I have had my RK systems stick with outlets on/off as well (the chiller once IIRC)
9) Lighting issues with the lights rapidly turning on/off due to electrical interference with temp probe readings.

These are just a few off the top of my head, without even considering the horrible customer service, lying, censorship, and plain rudeness on the part of DA. I am also not even mentioning how DA is consistently behind in releasing modules and features for their controller as well.

I don't mean to come off harsh here. I am glad you like your choice, but for many more, and especially those who have owned both, the general consensus always appears to be the Apex.

Hope this helps,
Landon

 

[Hunterfreeman1]

neither get a profilux and spare the problems you'll have i the future with both of them

 

[psyrob]

+1 for neither...but go ReefAngel!!! $219 gets 8 outlets, temp probe, ATO switches, ph probe, free software for managing it and tracking parameters...AND they just came out with an iPhone app, a salinity module and a module to use with Vortechs......

 

[Shard]

neither get a profilux and spare the problems you'll have i the future with both of them

what problems? The Apex is a reliable controller, as is the profilux. The only difference is with the profilux you will be paying 2-3x more to get basically the same thing. To me the Profliux is way overpriced, and becoming a little dated. For example, $300-350 (depending on vendor) just for a six outlet digital expansion module, not to mention the much higher initial unit cost w/ less features? However I will let James77 comment on this here as he knows best (he has/does own both).

+1 for neither...but go ReefAngel!!! $219 gets 8 outlets, temp probe, ATO switches, ph probe, free software for managing it and tracking parameters...AND they just came out with an iPhone app, a salinity module and a module to use with Vortechs......

The Reefangel is more of a tinkerer/hacker platform, not really for the average reefer, yet. I love the Open Source idea, but it is not really ready to compete with the Apex in terms of usability and software features at the moment. The firmware/software has some rather unique quirks and it isn't as full featured as the Apex. For example, I don't like how you have to reload the software just to change outlet setups, the lack of web interface features, the need to reload firmware each time you add modules, the need to do these updates from a computer instead of being able to over the network, etc.

The RA is on it's way to being an economical alternative, but there are still some distinct limitations in my mind that make the minor financial savings not really worth it. That being said, I do like the RA, as I like the open source platform, but I feel it may be daunting for some users who do not have a bit of computer experience. I mean you are programming an Arduino platform to be a controller (C++ language similarities). Granted there is a 'hold-your-hand' application to do a bit of the work for you, the reality is that to add features that are not available yet, you need to dive in yourself or wait on someone else to do it. That is a little more complex than the scripting language for the Apex, which I compare to being simpler than 1980's BASIC.

At any rate, the OP has already decided to switch to the Apex it appears, which is a good choice at the moment. I myself even as an Apex user, am eagerly awaiting the release of the Vertex Cerebra. If priced properly the expandability and capability of a Android based platform may well outperform everything currently available including the Apex, Reef Angel, and Profilux.

Hope this helps,
Landon

 

[psyrob]

I know the OP seems to have decided on the APEX, but I couldn't resist a chance to plug an alternative. Shard, all your points on the programming of the RA are valid, but I find all of those steps to be a good part of the experience of using the controller. I was looking for a challenge to dust off my neurons, something to get the mental juices flowing...The last time I programmed was in BASIC in a 1986 college class, and even I have learned to write code very quickly. However, if you want plug and play, the ReefAngel will probably be just annoying, so go with Neptune over DA, I say....

 

[Shard]

No problem psyrob, like I said, I like the RA. If I had the extra cash at the moment I would already have one to play with myself.

I am really impressed with the fact that an Open Source project has a Vortech controller out already. The dosing pumps seem very sturdy and well priced as well. I am curious about the Salinity module though, I see no news of it on the website, but found a thread about it in the forum. It appears the hardware has been developed, but the software/library to use the module is not fully developed yet?

go with Neptune over DA, I say....

I agree with this, but would also like to add that at this rate the RA is rapidly outpacing DA, so it is becoming a better option that the RKE as well.

 

[Allmost]

depends what u want to do with it ...

if u want to measure just PH, then rkl, SL2 is okay ...
from eng. point of view, DA shouldnt be making electronics ! their designs are SOO flawed its not even funny .. and htey know it too .

if u want something cool to controll stuff then Apex is the way to go, or profelux if u want more ...

 

[rysher]

+1 for neither...but go ReefAngel!!! $219 gets 8 outlets, temp probe, ATO switches, ph probe, free software for managing it and tracking parameters...AND they just came out with an iPhone app, a salinity module and a module to use with Vortechs......

+1

especially on the vortech wifi control. i hope it will be tested on the NON ES version and see if we can have the RA control the non ES and do nutrient export, now that would be nice, we dont need to pay $100 to upgrade to the ES.

for Tunze users, there's also a new one on development to control the tunze controllable pumps.

 

[James77]

neither get a profilux and spare the problems you'll have i the future with both of them

Problems can and will happen to any electronic device. Of the 3- DA, Neptune, and Profilux- the Profilux will have the least likelihood of some kind of failure, but you are paying a high premium for that. Neptune has very high quality, and failures are pretty rare, and there is excellent service in the US as well to back it up. Is it worth it to some to pay that higher premium and get less chance for dailure? Absolutley. But most people simply cannot afford or justify the extra cash to dump into a controller. For them, the Apex is an excellent "compromise". You get a powerful, quality controller with service to back it up. 8 outlets, tunze/LED control, ph, ORP, temp, internet and email out of box for about $450-$500 depending where you shop.

DA seems far more prone to problems than either, and unfortunately the service to help out their customers is just completely lacking.

What are the "builds" referring to on DA website? I have seen several references to somehting like "build # 37" and have never looked deep enough into it.

 

[James77]

I agree with this, but would also like to add that at this rate the RA is rapidly outpacing DA, so it is becoming a better option that the RKE as well.

Its not all that difficult to do...

But I would definitely go for a ReefAngel any day over the DA products. At least RA seems to have the ambition and competence to be pursuing and getting out Vortech and Tunze control. I think as it becomes more mainstream, the RA will be the main competitor to Neptune.

I am adding a basement set up again, and was even toying with trying the reef angel. One thing I have not seen, I assume they do not have it yet, is a 4-outlet power strip for controlling.

 

[Shard]

What are the "builds" referring to on DA website? I have seen several references to somehting like "build # 37" and have never looked deep enough into it.

Build numbers for successive revisions of the myReef 2.0 application. Six months after they released myReef (which was already about 5 months late, and two years in development), they are still trying to work out the bugs and still have not added several of the features....

I am adding a basement set up again, and was even toying with trying the reef angel. One thing I have not seen, I assume they do not have it yet, is a 4-outlet power strip for controlling.

Correct, there is no 4 outlet module. I don't know if they will ever have one, as I haven't seen a push from the community to produce one. However, I imagine it is fairly trivial task to do one if necessary.

 

[James77]

Thanks Shard

 

[vbsaltydog]

Well, based loosely on this thread, and more specifically from a need for more than 4 controllable outlets, I decided to get an Apex Lite and I am a believer.

While its not fair to compare the RKL to the Apex Lite and I have no experience with the RKE for comparison, here are my thoughts:

• The RKL was easy to setup but was very limited in configuration options
  (ex. you can setup an outlet to come on/off based on pH but you could not specify different behavior in the AM vs the PM)
• The Apex was just as easy, or easier (via the built-in web server), to setup using the built-in outlet functions and it also has advanced config options via the advanced outlet configuration scripts.

To be fair, I did read the unofficial guide for the Apex before touching the unit and I am a web programmer by trade so I was ahead of the curve going into the Apex setup but the web based setup was very easy to understand and making configuration edits via the display module are easy too.

I did use DA's email customer support once and found it lacking. I have used the Neptune sponsor forum here at RC a few times and I got fast responses that answered my questions correctly.

As for the modularity of the RK, yes it is modular so you can get just the head unit, PC4, and temp probe and add modules as needed but if you add another PC4 to get 8 outlets total like on the EB8 and add the SL1 so you can read a pH probe and float switches, you are quickly approaching the cost of the Apex but with far less functionality.

Things to consider:

1. I did not test the RKL vs. the Apex Jr. which would have been a more appropriate comparison.
2. I have not used the RKE. It may be a very good alternative to the Apex.
3. The Apex is a better controller for me personally but dont forget that it is double the cost of the RKL so this post is comparing the RK base model vs the Apex high end model.
4. This post is from my personal experience with these two controllers.

I will wrap this up by saying that the RKL is fine if you want a simple setup that is quick and easy to configure on only a few outlets.

The Apex is equally effective at a simple setup/configuration but also has the scripting language that allows for more advanced configurations.

The Apex is the clear winner for me considering that I want to control multiple outlets with advanced configurations.

 

[Tgronenthal]

My LFS guy said that these systems are good to have but the probes need to be calibrated so often that the convenience level goes out the door. Is that accurate?