rogergolf66
im an addict lol
it freezes up. this time solid orange on the unit and blinking green on the eb8
ReefKeeper vs Apex
- Thread starter Dr. Reef
- Start date
James77
Team RC
That sure is a PITA. The support is great, but does not take away the annoyance of problems. With that many problems on a new unit, I'd call it buggy and request a new unit. Not sure if they would bu they should.
James77
Team RC
I was just checking out there support page for info. How embarassing to have these issues going on for what....3 years now? One excuse I see pop up repeatedly is that they are trying to make a less than $100 probe for their customers. I wonder how many of DAs customers would rahter pay another $25-$50 more to be able to actually use the stupid friggin probe? Stop with the proprietray nonsense, DA can obviously not handle it, and just allow your customers to use standard salinity probes.
I'd personally be furious at them, but that is exactly why I switched to Neptune, because it is a joke! Any other controller for that matter....Profilux or ReefAngel will have you far less frustrated.
vbsaltydog
Member
I have owned both the RK and the Apex, and while the Apex is superior to the RK (IMO), the Apex is disappointing for the price. I have called Paul and the Neptune support was good but the product is just not up to the price tag. I think the Apex is a good value at about half the price.
I am not calling it a bad product overall. It is fine for switching lights, heaters, chillers on/off and monitoring/sending email alerts for parameter swings but these features shouldn't cost ~$500.00
It falls on its face when it is needed for advanced control of 0-10v lights/pumps, advanced scheduling of events, and reliable interfacing via the web server.
In my opinion, the Neptune engineers (not to be confused with the support staff) used cheap parts to build a system that meets the requirements, but barely, and have stopped trying to improve the product because they have a strong market share.
My next controller will either be a Profilux or something custom built.
- The web server dies periodically requiring a reboot to recover.
- I often have to make a setting change two or three times before the change is recorded (via the web server, I dont know about via the display module)
- The advanced outlet scripting language is poor, requiring a series of hacks (ex. virtual outlets, profiles) to achieve basic scripting functions.
- There is no way to see the 0-10v power output or increment/decrement it manually.
- There is no way to test the state of an outlet against profiles, only for on/off.
I am not calling it a bad product overall. It is fine for switching lights, heaters, chillers on/off and monitoring/sending email alerts for parameter swings but these features shouldn't cost ~$500.00
It falls on its face when it is needed for advanced control of 0-10v lights/pumps, advanced scheduling of events, and reliable interfacing via the web server.
In my opinion, the Neptune engineers (not to be confused with the support staff) used cheap parts to build a system that meets the requirements, but barely, and have stopped trying to improve the product because they have a strong market share.
My next controller will either be a Profilux or something custom built.
dont take me wrong i am running both units now for about a yr side by side and i have had my share of problems with apex too and i ad to reset and call/email Paul several times but comparing apples to apples i think the problems with apex are far less than the headaches i have had with RKE.
pics just for curious reefers.
pics just for curious reefers.
vbsaltydog
Member
Here is an update.
I originally had an RKL and I got rid of it in under a week because it was such a poor design/configuration. Then I got an Apex lite (not the Apex Jr) and I was very happy having come from the RKL. Well, that happiness was short lived.
I know the Apex is well liked and the customer service is good so people won't like this review but the "Apex" is nothing of the sort.
I find that the web server is constantly non-responsive leaving my browser waiting infinitely until the Apex is power cycled and it often loads the web page incorrectly (without the css styling). Yes, I have the latest stable firmware before anyone asks.
Six of the eight outlets in the EB8 are Triac (solid state) outlets which is good for things that need to switch silently many times without burning out the relay but they dont detect loads under 5w so they will leave your dosing pumps running when they should be turned off! Are you kidding? Dont ship a dosing product that is prone to overdosing. That should have been resolved before the first unit shipped. Period.
The 0-10v outlets cannot display their power output percentage and the power cannot be manually incremented/decremented. That is the first thing people need to do if they want to detect their sweet spot in LED lighting. It is shameful to release 0-10v outlets that can only be controlled by "profiles".
Example. To set a 0-10v outlet to 50% power, instead of just setting it to 50, you must create a ramping profile and set the ramp from 50 to 50 and then set the outlet to the profile, all through the non responsive web server so it takes you forever. And if you want to change the outlet to 60% you cant just update the profile from 50 to 60 because the outlet will continue running the old 50% version of the profile until you manually set the outlet to off and then reset it to the profile that it was on. Imagine doing that over and over until you find your desired power setting!
Outlets can be set to "profiles" and in outlet programs, you can check another outlet's state as on/off but you cannot check to see if it is running a profile. That is an example of poor design quality control.
For the outlet programs, you are limited to something like 19 lines but the programming language is so bad that you have to write the most general conditions at the top and then make them more specific as you write your commands. Hopefully you can do it in under 19 lines of you will need to break it up into profiles which is a cheap hack, not $500.00 device quality.
The list goes on and on.
In summation. If you have the most basic of needs like switch a light on and off based on a schedule or switch a heater on/off based on temperature and you dont mind having to power cycle the Apex every time you want to control it because it never replies to your web browser and you dont mind having to daisy chain a light bulb to your dosing pump's EB8 outlet to ensure that you will not overdose your tank then I suppose the "Apex" will suffice but for anyone that expects something that actually works well I would suggest you keep looking.
For anyone that wants to come to the Apex's defense please consider that I am not attacking Neptune's customer support which seems good and I am not saying that the Apex is not one of the best options in its price range as of today, 11/30/2012
What I am saying is that the Apex is poorly engineered for the price and the engineers have fallen asleep at the wheel since they have become the de facto standard in the Aquarium controller market.
Prime example is the $99.00 VDM module that cannot be manipulated manually or display it's output. It should never have been sent to the market that way.
I originally had an RKL and I got rid of it in under a week because it was such a poor design/configuration. Then I got an Apex lite (not the Apex Jr) and I was very happy having come from the RKL. Well, that happiness was short lived.
I know the Apex is well liked and the customer service is good so people won't like this review but the "Apex" is nothing of the sort.
I find that the web server is constantly non-responsive leaving my browser waiting infinitely until the Apex is power cycled and it often loads the web page incorrectly (without the css styling). Yes, I have the latest stable firmware before anyone asks.
Six of the eight outlets in the EB8 are Triac (solid state) outlets which is good for things that need to switch silently many times without burning out the relay but they dont detect loads under 5w so they will leave your dosing pumps running when they should be turned off! Are you kidding? Dont ship a dosing product that is prone to overdosing. That should have been resolved before the first unit shipped. Period.
The 0-10v outlets cannot display their power output percentage and the power cannot be manually incremented/decremented. That is the first thing people need to do if they want to detect their sweet spot in LED lighting. It is shameful to release 0-10v outlets that can only be controlled by "profiles".
Example. To set a 0-10v outlet to 50% power, instead of just setting it to 50, you must create a ramping profile and set the ramp from 50 to 50 and then set the outlet to the profile, all through the non responsive web server so it takes you forever. And if you want to change the outlet to 60% you cant just update the profile from 50 to 60 because the outlet will continue running the old 50% version of the profile until you manually set the outlet to off and then reset it to the profile that it was on. Imagine doing that over and over until you find your desired power setting!
Outlets can be set to "profiles" and in outlet programs, you can check another outlet's state as on/off but you cannot check to see if it is running a profile. That is an example of poor design quality control.
For the outlet programs, you are limited to something like 19 lines but the programming language is so bad that you have to write the most general conditions at the top and then make them more specific as you write your commands. Hopefully you can do it in under 19 lines of you will need to break it up into profiles which is a cheap hack, not $500.00 device quality.
The list goes on and on.
In summation. If you have the most basic of needs like switch a light on and off based on a schedule or switch a heater on/off based on temperature and you dont mind having to power cycle the Apex every time you want to control it because it never replies to your web browser and you dont mind having to daisy chain a light bulb to your dosing pump's EB8 outlet to ensure that you will not overdose your tank then I suppose the "Apex" will suffice but for anyone that expects something that actually works well I would suggest you keep looking.
For anyone that wants to come to the Apex's defense please consider that I am not attacking Neptune's customer support which seems good and I am not saying that the Apex is not one of the best options in its price range as of today, 11/30/2012
What I am saying is that the Apex is poorly engineered for the price and the engineers have fallen asleep at the wheel since they have become the de facto standard in the Aquarium controller market.
Prime example is the $99.00 VDM module that cannot be manipulated manually or display it's output. It should never have been sent to the market that way.
potterjon
New member
The main reason I am even thinking about a controller is for dosing, can you elaborate on this a little bit? Does the RKL do a better job at this? I know you only owned it for a week but, is this a common problem with both controllers? I have read a lot of threads but I don't remember reading that anywhere before.
James77
Team RC
Yes, it is an issue with both Neptune and Digital Aquatics. On the EB8 there are 2 relay outlets, which handle low draw equipment better since they mechanically click over. The PC4 has 2 on each strip, so you do get 2 more relays in a full controller package. However the EB4 by Neptune has all 4 as relays.
James77
Team RC
Yes.
Another method of dealing with the triac issue on either controller is to put a small surge suppressor inline with your dosing pump. At least on the PC4 from DA that solution works. I would assume that it would work on the EB8 since they are designed in a very similar way.
vbsaltydog
Member
You can put surge protectors, small light bulbs, etc on the outlet with your low current devices to draw more than ~5w and ensure that the TRIAC switches off correctly but these controllers should come with HUGE WARNINGS on these outlets vs just hoping that you read the manual to discover this "hack" BEFORE you wake up to an overdosed tank because the outlet did not switch off on a device that is sold at a premium price as a dosing device.
Before anyone assumes, no, I have not overdosed my tank via one of these controllers but that is because of my diligence and NOT because the manufacturers protected me from overdose.
ALL outlets should switch on/off dependably, without hacks, when their switching is critical to the lives of your pets and your financial investments in livestock.
Before anyone assumes, no, I have not overdosed my tank via one of these controllers but that is because of my diligence and NOT because the manufacturers protected me from overdose.
ALL outlets should switch on/off dependably, without hacks, when their switching is critical to the lives of your pets and your financial investments in livestock.
potterjon
New member
My router is nowhere near my tank. The apex jr sounds like what I was going to get, but now I am wondering how I can control it if I don't have the option of running an ethernet cable and it doesn't come with a display. Can I hook it up wireless to my wireless router so that I can control it from my phone? Also, can you control it from anywhere with your phone or do you have to be on your home network?
vbsaltydog
Member
You can buy a display but I dont recommend that because programming beyond basic settings are difficult via the display.
You can use a game adapter/wireless bridge to place the jr on your wireless network and then you can control it via a web browser and/or phone app.
You can control it via your computer/phone only from your wifi until you forward a port in your router to your apex and then you can access it from anywhere as long as you know your router's external ip address or you use a DNS service like no-ip.com
