Refigum? What size do i need.

[Whys]

You gave me an excuse to use this image.

Do not cycle with fish!

I'm not certain what it is you're saying about the wet/dry. The recommendation for reefs is to NOT USE wet/dry filters. Reef hobbyists who happen to have a wet/dry filter left over from a previous aquarium, sometimes modify it to hold chaeto instead of bio-balls. All that's really required is a bit of chaeto and a light.

 

[Whys]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14814179#post14814179 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by troublesx10
what about replacing hamsters with mice?

I can't use mice. They fit thru my overflow. LiveAquaria has some fat mice from Brazil, but I don't think I can afford the breeding pair.

 

[tmz]

Again, you don't need to use fish for cycling.

A wet and dry is designed to remove ammonia and nitrite by moving water through a highly oxygenated environment. This process is called nitrification since it turns the ammonia and nitrite into nitrate. The nitrate is placed in the watercolumn as no denitrication occurs in wet and drys due to the lack of oxygen free zones. Low oxygen areas are needed by the bacteria that break down the nitrate to harmless free nitrogen gas. High nitrate in a reef tank or fish only tank is highly undesireable and harmful.

 

[troublesx10]

previously stated
"The recommendation for reefs is to NOT USE wet/dry filters. Reef hobbyists who happen to have a wet/dry filter left over from a previous aquarium, sometimes modify it to hold chaeto instead of bio-balls. All that's really required is a bit of chaeto and a light."

ok i understand------- now got to figure out what to do with this wet/dry........... add chaeto---- anything else?
should i #1 go and buy a refigium and loose the wet/dry housing --- or #2 try to modify it to add chaeto????

--------let m describe it--- maybe to help answer the question------ roughtly 36 inches L by 14 h, by 16 wide-----2/3's are covered by plate and under bio balls, seperated by last 1/3 space for skimmer----- (not much room for chaeto unless figure out way to remove balls)--then i will need to find light and toss the cover plate.... or just get another/new refigium----- up side to buying is i can choose any size and pickout bells and whistles-------

forgive me for clarifying the issue, but are the bioballs pointless since i have rock/sand-------- ??????

what bout something like this???
http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=16729&cat=0&page=1

can anyone give me some suggestions--- with website so i can look at or guide for choosing------------- in case i go with this option--------

I will be unable to reply untill thur pm as i am going to be away from computer the next couple of days===== at beach with wife and family -----in the case i do have access to computer i will chec and reply----i am getting scuba certified this next couple of days---gonna try to get some fish watching done while on reef while trying to avoid being fish food for the bigger fish, wish me luck.

i think i will choose mice----- efficiency but torque---- just got to prevent them from swimming--------

 

[Whys]

The options are endless. You can modify, buy, or DIY. A refugium is nothing more than a compartment with water and light. Do you have a sump? A lot of people just add a couple baffles to their sump and call it good.

 

[tmz]

The bioballs create and enviroment for nitrifying . They provide surface area for high flow and high oxygen areas. This supports bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrate to nitrate. The nitrate goes into the tank and can be harmful at high levels. The same ammonia and nitrite if processed on the rock and sand bed will produce the nitrate but it will move into low oxygen areas in the sand or rock and be further processed to free nitrogen as the bacteria that live in these oxygen poor areas take the oxygen from the nitrate(NO3). So bioballs are a hindrance to water quality in a reef tank overall.

 

[woochild86]

The manager at Aqualife Aquarium said I should go with a Berlin Sump method since I only want mainly corals in my new tank. So i guess that's what I'm going with. I'm still confused is to why people go with one type of sump versus a nother.

 

[Whys]

Sumps in of themselves aren't really intended to add to any particular aquarium process. They just put the equipment out of site so you don't have to look at it in the display tank. Refugiums are another matter and depend a great deal on what you are trying to achieve. Even then, they are largely speculative and mostly a matter of personal style. A berlin sump is really a sump with an embedded refugium. There are many options, but again, what are you trying to achieve?

 

[KarlBob]

Yes, the bioballs are pointless because you will have live rock and sand. The consensus in the hobby is that bioballs are actively harmful, rather than simply pointless.

If you remove the bioballs from your wet/dry filter, you'll have an empty compartment. If you choose to add live rock rubble and/or sand and/or chaetomorpha or caulerpa to the empty compartment, you will be able to call it a refugium.

As Whys mentioned, a sump is a separate compartment, where "ugly" things can be hidden from view. If you connect your wet/dry filter, but remove the bioballs, you will be able to call it a sump.

Therefore, if you connect your wet/dry filter, but remove the bioballs, it will definitely qualify for the term "sump". If you add macroalgae/live rock/sand, it will qualify for the term "refugium" and the term "sump" at the same time. If you do not add macroalgae/live rock/sand to the wet/dry filter, it will not qualify for the term "refugium".

A refugium and a sump can be the same physical piece of equipment, or two separate pieces of equipment. An example of a separated sump and refugium would be a display tank, with a sump underneath the display tank containing a protein skimmer and a return pump, and a hang-on-tank refugium attached to the display tank. An example of a combined sump/refugium would be a display tank with an acrylic box underneath, where the acrylic box underneath the display tank contains both a protein skimmer and a ball of chaetomorpha algae.

 

[woochild86]

This is in response to Whys post. I just want soft corals and some hard corals in my new tank and that it. I love corals!

 

[troublesx10]

i am back, ok so question simplyf:

I have a wet dry that the 2/3 of the wet/dry houses bioballs and is designed so the water flows evenly over them, so a large portion is having water poured it. the last compartment houses the skimmer and is connected to external pump.

can a refigium function with water pouring down on top of it, ie macro algea and substrate for pods? do i need to reconfigure the wetdry to calm the flow?

 

[Whys]

You'll want your macro-algae to be submerged, as well as any liverock you might put in there. Otherwise, you'll still have a wet/dry, just algae and liverock instead of bioballs, but still the same problems.

 

[troublesx10]

so what do i do to convert it to functional ref? slow and divert water flow? or is it better to just replace with regular refigium?

will be home from vacation and back in states sat night, plan to have tank delivered and set up within 5-8 days, i have just enough time to order one and have it delivered----- any websites you may recomend or refigiums that would work? someone recommended a refigium recently from a guy that custom builds, What about that one?

 

[Whys]

I've never converted one myself and they are all a little different. So I guess the answer is... get creative.

Or buy something else.

 

[troublesx10]

any idea of a good website, or what to look for in one.

what should i look for in one? i know i want to do pods and macro, with a substrate bottom for organisims.

i don't know what to look for, i think i heard 20% of volume of display tank, but how many baffles, how high do you want baffels, do you need to get new ext pump after calculating gph,how many compartments, what kind of wattage for a power flouresent?

i know of championlighting, marinedepot, drfostersmith.----- know of any others that might offer refigiums for better price?

 

[troublesx10]

whys any suggestions?

 

[Whys]

Oh come'on... I'm not the only one here.

:lol:

Umm... for pods I'd say liverock. For macro, do the Chaeto. I'd recommend a shallow sandbed personally. That'll provide a good environment for copepods. I keep thinking about doing it for mine, but the argument against is ditritus trapping. I just put a dusting of different sand grain sizes in mine, but admittedly, I don't see a lot of copepods. On the other hand, my system runs really clean.

You'll have to decide.

The height of your baffles is usually determined by the height of your skimmer, or in sump reactors, or what ever needs a certain amount of water height.

Sorry to say, a lot of this is stuff you're going to have to figure out for yourself. I have one baffle in my sump, but I can't say that is right for you, besides, I do have some micro-bubbles floating around. But then again, my sump is a very high flow. But then again, my sump uses a micron sock.... you see where this is going.

This is a complex hobby with many facets an endless options. No one actually knows what is truly "ideal". That's part of the hobby. Researching, learning, drawing conclusions, and deciding on your own solutions.

It helps to create several threads with very specific questions for each one. That will get you more responses.

 

[KarlBob]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14844446#post14844446 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Whys
Oh come'on... I'm not the only one here.
Ok, I'll help, too.
:lol:

Umm... for pods I'd say liverock. For macro, do the Chaeto.
I agree. Chaetomorpha rarely turns sexual, it doesn't need to be attached to anything, and it's not invasive. Caulerpa does turn sexual (then die), attaches to live rock, and is horrendously invasive. (So invasive, in fact, that several species are illegal to import into California, because they've gotten loose and taken over some areas along the Pacific coast.)
I'd recommend a shallow sandbed personally. That'll provide a good environment for copepods. I keep thinking about doing it for mine, but the argument against is ditritus trapping. I just put a dusting of different sand grain sizes in mine, but admittedly, I don't see a lot of copepods. On the other hand, my system runs really clean.
I put a 2 inch sand bed in mine, but I don't have a strong opinion on how it should be done.
You'll have to decide.

The height of your baffles is usually determined by the height of your skimmer, or in sump reactors, or what ever needs a certain amount of water height.
Agreed. My hang-on-tank refugium came with baffles already installed, so I didn't have to decide how tall they should be.

Sorry to say, a lot of this is stuff you're going to have to figure out for yourself. I have one baffle in my sump, but I can't say that is right for you, besides, I do have some micro-bubbles floating around. But then again, my sump is a very high flow. But then again, my sump uses a micron sock.... you see where this is going.
The most common recommendation I've seen is for three baffles, with the opening alternating between high and low. That configuration supposedly removes the most micro-bubbles.

This is a complex hobby with many facets an endless options. No one actually knows what is truly "ideal". That's part of the hobby. Researching, learning, drawing conclusions, and deciding on your own solutions.

It helps to create several threads with very specific questions for each one. That will get you more responses.
Part of what makes it so hard to get detailed advice is the fact that most people have a unique set-up. If you were on a board where everyone used one of the pre-packaged tanks, like the BioCube or the Red Sea MAX, then you'd get a lot of definite answers. Instead, most RC members have their own unique assemblies of totally different pieces. We can't tell you to install this, remove that, and move the other thing 3" to the right. All we can do is tell you what we've read or seen, and what worked (or failed) for us.

 

[troublesx10]

thanks whys----- will let you know what i put together--- anyone recommend good website for prebuild refigium---- think i will do that instead of build one-----------------------.

 

[Whys]

Thanks Bob! Now do some work.