Refugium tips (formerly "flow rate thorugh a refugium")
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wayne in norway
New member
Perhaps if you're after maximum nutrient export you are going to sacrifice pod growth in the refugium to some extent. It seems to me the two are ultimately incompatible.
I remember seeing how much cyano a certain amount of nitrate would produce.. it was enough to convince me it wasn't a viable way to remove wastes...
I remember seeing how much cyano a certain amount of nitrate would produce.. it was enough to convince me it wasn't a viable way to remove wastes...
bergzy
New member
i have had my new 40g fuge set up for about a month now.
the original chaeto that was growing in my bucket fuge was starting to die (hooked up to my old 125g set up).
i originally had a flow of about 300g through it via a split from my main return pump. the fuge initially started growing cyano but i saw a lot of pods crawling around. tons!!!
i then placed a maxijet 1200 in there.
chaeto started to tumble as anthony clafo stated one should do.
it has more than tripledin size since then. the green has also become very dark grean with a firm crisp texture. when i put the chaeto in originally, it was light green, soft and wilted.
i just added another powerhead and plugged them both into a spare red sea wavemaster pro.
this brings the total circulation to almost 900gph or 22.5x turnover per hour. chaeto looks phenomenol.
but...the pods must be hiding or chewed up from the powerhead cuz i havent really seen any. that looks like they don't like the heavy flow.
my fuge is meant for nutrient export and not pod production as there is a sponge prefilter on the overflow to prevent stray chaeto bits from entering the main display.
with 180 pounds of lr in the main display, this should be more than enough for my mandarin goby!
the original chaeto that was growing in my bucket fuge was starting to die (hooked up to my old 125g set up).
i originally had a flow of about 300g through it via a split from my main return pump. the fuge initially started growing cyano but i saw a lot of pods crawling around. tons!!!
i then placed a maxijet 1200 in there.
chaeto started to tumble as anthony clafo stated one should do.
it has more than tripledin size since then. the green has also become very dark grean with a firm crisp texture. when i put the chaeto in originally, it was light green, soft and wilted.
i just added another powerhead and plugged them both into a spare red sea wavemaster pro.
this brings the total circulation to almost 900gph or 22.5x turnover per hour. chaeto looks phenomenol.
but...the pods must be hiding or chewed up from the powerhead cuz i havent really seen any. that looks like they don't like the heavy flow.
my fuge is meant for nutrient export and not pod production as there is a sponge prefilter on the overflow to prevent stray chaeto bits from entering the main display.
with 180 pounds of lr in the main display, this should be more than enough for my mandarin goby!
I am still decicing on whether or not to "get the ball rolling". Initially the section of my sump that the chaeto is in was intended as an area for detritus to settle out so it could be easily removed. So I am debating leaving it like it is, rolling the ball, adding a 2" layer of Southdown to reduce my NO2 reading of 0.2ppm and help process detritus or a mixture of a couple of these. Decisions, decisions, decisions.....
Chris
Chris
, it is actually quite entertaining to watch!
Anthony Calfo
New member
Wayne et al. have really "hit the nail on the head" so to speak: some of the things we seek to achieve in refugiums are difficult if possible to achieve to the same/highest level(s) at the same time.
Although we can enjoy numerous and simultaneous benefits from most any type of system - high/low flow, coarse/fine substrates, deep or shallow beds, lit/unlit, etc. - we really must focus on some primary goals and accept the compromises on other aspects.
You can imagine some really neat refugium styles/applications that are truly incompatible with each other: settling chamber or turf algae system? [slow versus high flow]... amphipod factory or, hmmm... spaghetti worm fetish? [coarse versus fine substrates]... Gracilaria farm or cryptic refugium [high versus low light].
Again... need to worry about a strict "rule" for flow
No such rule exists.
In the case of Chaeto and Gracilaria, moderate to high flow and perhaps tumbling of the matter will not harm but likely help the colony. No more, no less
kindly,
Anthony
Although we can enjoy numerous and simultaneous benefits from most any type of system - high/low flow, coarse/fine substrates, deep or shallow beds, lit/unlit, etc. - we really must focus on some primary goals and accept the compromises on other aspects.
You can imagine some really neat refugium styles/applications that are truly incompatible with each other: settling chamber or turf algae system? [slow versus high flow]... amphipod factory or, hmmm... spaghetti worm fetish? [coarse versus fine substrates]... Gracilaria farm or cryptic refugium [high versus low light].
Again... need to worry about a strict "rule" for flow
No such rule exists.In the case of Chaeto and Gracilaria, moderate to high flow and perhaps tumbling of the matter will not harm but likely help the colony. No more, no less
kindly,
Anthony
biomekanic
New member
Lighting: I have a 25.5" x 4.5" x 12" HOB refugium with excellent Chaeto growth ( harvest about 1/2 to 2/3 every month). For lighting I use 2x 23w Panasonic GenIV 5000K bulbs in a "standard" dual incandescent aquarium hood. I modified the hood by putting in a reflector I picked up from Ahsupply.com. All told, it cost me about $40 for the whole works. After putting in the reflector, I got much better growth. The bulbs are good for about 14 - 16 months, when I was running them 24/7. I've switched to having the HOB on at the same time as the main lights, with the sump/refugium on reverse. When I first got the bulbs, they were $14.99 at a local light store, last time, same store, the price had dropped to $11.99, and according to the merchant, prices will continue to drop. IME, this is also a nice light if you want to do a planted FW or marine macro algae nano tank.
http://www.buylighting.com/Panasonic-GenIV.htm
http://www.buylighting.com/Panasonic-GenIV.htm
Anthony Calfo
New member
cheers, Chris... indeed - I wear the badge too 
and much thanks for the lighting tip Mike/Bio Very good point about using a good reflector. If one is going to use lights for most any reason at all... a quality reflector is a must.
Anthony
and much thanks for the lighting tip Mike/Bio
Very good point about using a good reflector. If one is going to use lights for most any reason at all... a quality reflector is a must.Anthony
tabwyo
Premium Member
Mr. Calfo, I am currently rigging up a scrubber fuge and would like your input. The fuge itself is a 58 quart "rubbermaid" container. I ntend to run 100% of my display overflow(roughly 290GPH) through it. I have read this thread a couple times and I have begun to have and idea. I can cut and bend a piece of plexi as a horizontal deflector that my overflow would dump onto. I would place this deflector about 10" from one side of the container deflecting the water into the larger area of the fuge. Giving me roughly 3/4 of the fuge area for a chaeto tumbler. Under the deflecto I would have an eggcrate wall to corral my chaeto ball. My outlet would be behind this "wall" and surrounded with extra rock rubble and such. This end of the fuge I hope will have a much less hecktic flow pattern and allow a last chance area of detritus to settle out befor it enters the sump. The entire fuge will have a shallow live sand bed as well. Any thoughts would be helpfull.
Anthony Calfo
New member
please call me Anthony, my friend.
As best I can visualize, your notion sounds essentially fine. The vessel is small enough that manipulations to get the pattern you need will be relatively simple. No worries.
I do have some wonder and minor concern about the egg grate barrier. I'm not sure its needed and do expect that it will trap or hitch some Chaetomorpha.
Actually... in the big picture, you may not need to tumble Chaetomorpha at all in this refugium. Again, it is small enough in size that lighting and water flow will not be as difficult or expensive to produce as on a much larger refugium.
And since I'm a (very) big fan of keeping systems as simple as possible, I'm suggesting you maybe forego most of the customizing of this vessel and see how it flies at first. Adjust as/if needed afterwards
best of luck, life
Anthony
As best I can visualize, your notion sounds essentially fine. The vessel is small enough that manipulations to get the pattern you need will be relatively simple. No worries.
I do have some wonder and minor concern about the egg grate barrier. I'm not sure its needed and do expect that it will trap or hitch some Chaetomorpha.
Actually... in the big picture, you may not need to tumble Chaetomorpha at all in this refugium. Again, it is small enough in size that lighting and water flow will not be as difficult or expensive to produce as on a much larger refugium.
And since I'm a (very) big fan of keeping systems as simple as possible, I'm suggesting you maybe forego most of the customizing of this vessel and see how it flies at first. Adjust as/if needed afterwards
best of luck, life
Anthony
charlesgage
New member
how is this setup at about 500 GPH of flow, it is in a 40g long 48x12x12
1 - 5 gal
2 - 4 gal
3- 16 gal
4 - 2 gal
comments? changes?
1 - 5 gal
2 - 4 gal
3- 16 gal
4 - 2 gal
comments? changes?
Anthony Calfo
New member
above all things else... then skimmer needs to get all raw water first. Otherwise, organics that you would prefer to be exported are allowed to linger as sediment, get tied up in refugia otherwise, etc.
Be very direct about aggressive skimming and supply it with first chamber raw water.
The water flow may also need to be increased (because the baffles are very diffusive)
Be very direct about aggressive skimming and supply it with first chamber raw water.
The water flow may also need to be increased (because the baffles are very diffusive)
charlesgage
New member
Well i already have it built and chamber 4 is too small for a sump, any suggestions that only involve plumbing changes or removing walls?
Anthony Calfo
New member
you could build a small vessel just slightly larger than the footprint of the skimmer and place it inline next to the sump (and slightly higher) so that it gets raw water first then overflows (to the sump, again).
Else your skimmer performance will be seriously handicapped IMO.
Or... sell the sump you have to someone that does not place an emphasis on skimming ( they do larger water changes, lower bio-load, etc) and rebuild your sump.
do it right the first time, mate... you have a lot of money, time and life forms invested in this tank.
Anthony
Else your skimmer performance will be seriously handicapped IMO.
Or... sell the sump you have to someone that does not place an emphasis on skimming ( they do larger water changes, lower bio-load, etc) and rebuild your sump.
do it right the first time, mate... you have a lot of money, time and life forms invested in this tank.
Anthony
charlesgage
New member
1. where would the raw water come from (for the skimmer)?
2. I would have built it right the first time, but that is how i was told to build it!
3. I assume that if i switch the skimmer to go before the fuge, than all will be good? I could just move the one wall.
2. I would have built it right the first time, but that is how i was told to build it!
3. I assume that if i switch the skimmer to go before the fuge, than all will be good? I could just move the one wall.
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