Refugium tips (formerly "flow rate thorugh a refugium")

yes... do switch the skimmer before the refugium if not giving it a catch basin (inline and before the sump) of its own.

No worries. And seeing you are from MI state.. are you aware of Preuss Animal House up north (Lansing area I think). Rick Preuss is one of the most conscientious merchants/people in the aquarium hobby/industry. A fine aquarium and pet store.

best of luck,

Anthony
 
Thanks, i have not been yet, I am heading out to preuss this weekend to get some livestock, I will talk to them, I can say hi if you want!
 
They are all great folks... truly so.

But if/when you start to attend the hobby conferences like MACNA, you will soon develop an appreciation for how much work Rick Preuss has done for the industry.

best regards, Anthony
 
I like refugia for nitrate reduction (DSB) and zooplankton production (Chaetomorpha or unlit with a polyester fiber matrix to grow them in). Do check out some of the other threads on refugiums and stocking them in this forum and beyond. :)
 
Hi Anthony Im just wondering what you mean by Raw water into the skimmer? At what flow rate would sand start blowing around? Is DBS really worth the trouble and expense.
Did people jump the gun with bare botton.
like you said most people run low flow rates through there refugiums bacteria rely heavly on strong currents to bring them nutriunts.
Also particle size and sand depth have little to do with bacteria numbers.
Sorry if this is just all just yesterday's news

Reference's
Adams,G and S. Spotte. 1985. "Carbonate Mineral Filtrants and New Surfaces Reduce Alkalinity in Seawater and Artificial Seawater:
Preliminary findings."Aquacult Eng 4:305-311
Anderson, T.K., M. H. Jensen and J. Soreensen. 1984. "Diurnal Variations of Nitrogen Cycling in Coastal, Marine Sediments I. "Mar Biol 83:171-176
Capone, D G., S. E. Dunhan, S. G. Horrigan and L. E. Duguay. 1992. "micorbial Nitrogen Transformation in Unconsolidalted Caroal Reef Sediments."Mar Ecol Prog Series 80:75-88.
Coull, B.C., M.A. Palmer and P.E. Myers. 1989. "Controls on the Vertical Disttribution of Meiobenthos in Mud."Mar Ecol Prog Series 55:133-140.
 
Raw water to the skimmer means raw tank water goes to the skimmer first - this is the dirtiest water. Skim out as much as possible, pass this cleaned water to the filter bacteria to reduce load on them.
I will read the references you quote. However my first impressions would be , based on experience looking at sand beds in tanks and beaches that you are right to say bacterial numbers aren't much affescted by particle size and depth. However what I would say is that both of these, and water flow have direct efects on the behaviour of some of these bacteria as they have a control on the flow of oxygenated water through a sand bed.
Particle size increases - thickness aerobic layer increases as water penetrates more easily
Depth - more depth .... well obviously dissolved oxygen content decreases with depth
Water flow - higher = greater thickness richly aerobic zone.

SO it's not necessarily a measure of mow many bacteria are there, as to what they're getting up to.
 
... and we are not talking about a beach on/near a reef... we are talking about a comparatively lifeless bed of sand in an aquarium with a staggeringly miniscule rate of water flow and exchange compared to the a given/analyzed portion of a beach.

In so many ways, we are talking about two different realities here. And so, we make concessions to the artifacts of captivity. That is the only biology I personally speak to/about. Aquarium science... not aquatic science, if you will :)

I do appreciate the references, Bugger... but 3/4 are 15-20 years old... the fourth is fast approaching that. Aquarium science and Aquatic science have evolved considerably since these excellent works were published, with all due respect my friend.

Anthony
 
I'm bringing this thread back to life :) theres lots of good info here. I'm planning on building my own HOB fuge for my 29g. I plan on only having chaeto in there no sand bed or LR, and maybe a snail or two to help keep the walls clean.

I knew I wanted to keep the chaeto tumbling and was trying to come up with a good design for that. Its been hard for me to visualize some of the models discussed here so I made a quick model myself.

Please keep in mind I have no background in fluid dynamics :) I still have no idea how to setup the "spillover" area to return the water to the main tank. If Anthony or anyone could provide feedback that would be great.

idea1.jpg


idea2.jpg
 
if the return water is a narrow nozzle, it will not move the surface adequately in a shear wave/wall.

That's the reason for the sealed plate under the surface of the water... to splash and divert the incurrent stream into a laminar plane of water. A spray bar could be a workable compromise here... although I've never liked the (poor) serviceability of spray bars.
 
Thanks, I'm still a little confused though, should it be similar to my 2nd drawing or should the flow exit below the "sealed plate"? Does anyone have a link to a pic of a system like this?
 
ah, I see. The second drawing my friend. I did not realize the line under the effluent pipe was a sealed plate (do draw an end wall perhaps for sharing this diagram in the future. A good diagram indeed).

And this plate need not be very large. Just a couple inches wide.

I saw this on Steve Pro's refugium. Perhaps he has or can take a picture to share.
 
ah, fab! You can see the sealed glass lip on the right side very well (lust under the surface of the water). Works very well for causing a rolling action to the water for tumbling Radiolarian, Chaetomorpha etc... reduces the qty of light needed, stimulates vigor/growth in such algae, etc.
 
Anthony-

I have another question about flow rates. You helped me with my upstream 15 gal fuge and changing sand beds in my 55 gal FOWLR. We also discussed greyhounds a bit. I took your advice and did not lose any fish, snail, crabs ect. Thank you.

Now for my question. For the fuge I am going to use a mag 5 pump instead of a smaller powerhead. If I send all the water through the pump I will have roughly 400 GPH using the head loss calculator. I am planning on Chaeto and having a deep sand bed 6-8''. Would you recommend sending all the water through the fuge ore splitting it and having some return directly to the tank? The return form the fuge will be gravity fed.

thanks Walt
 
do give this (Chaetomorpha) refugium at least 400-500 gph for vigorous growth and health :)

good to hear from you too, Walt.

kindly, Anthony :)
 
I can comment here (am close friends with Steve, and have seen this display):

The water for the refugium does indeed spill over a shared wall (then crashes down on that glass lip sealed slightly below the water level on that right side).

Notice that the sequence is very appropriately: raw water from above (display), dropping to the far right (first) chamber (you can see the skimmer cup just behind the post)... then to the refugium... then to the sump proper before being returned (pump) to the display.
 
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