wayne in norway
New member
I was at the DIY shop a few weeks ago, and saw 500 watt work lights on stands for 25 dollars apiece.... very tempting. If I stick it on my little refugium I would get nearly 100 watts/gallon of nasty algae friendly light
Refugium tips (formerly "flow rate thorugh a refugium")
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Anthony Calfo
New member
cheers, All... sorry for the brief silence in reply - I've been away for a few days.
sfsuphysics - very good point re: many popular macros favoring warmer colored lamps! And thanks for sharing the nifty "seaweed" reference.
Additionally, for anyone interested in more info on marine plants and algae... do track down many of the the works by the Littlers. These and other neat-O/uncommon books/references can be peeped/bought at seachallengers.com... among other places.
Bill/Billsreef... excellent to hear an expert "marine greens" enthusiast chime in here! Indeed... for this organism at least, (improved) water flow is very influentialas you have started/shared.
Which brings me/us to Andy's question(s) about dosing and outfitting for "Chaeto" overall (iron, etc.). Really, mate... Chaetomorpha is truly a staggeringly hardy and adaptable genera/variety! With reef-quality water that is good enough to keep cnidarians healthy (regular water changes, etc.)... you need not worry too much about dosing specifically for Chaeto beyond normal trace element/mineral supplementation. They really are quite adaptable to a very (!) wide range of lighting too. Anything approaching 5 watts per gallon (arghhh! I hate rules of thumb) and of a color leaning towards the warm end of the spectrum will be fine (hence the reason why "cheap" lamps work well for Chaeto... crappy non-designer warm colored or aged lamps start or stray to the arm side of the spectrum).
Chaeto is so desrvedly popular in large part because of its great adaptability and hardiness.
kind regard to all,
Anthony
Andy -
sfsuphysics - very good point re: many popular macros favoring warmer colored lamps! And thanks for sharing the nifty "seaweed" reference.
Additionally, for anyone interested in more info on marine plants and algae... do track down many of the the works by the Littlers. These and other neat-O/uncommon books/references can be peeped/bought at seachallengers.com... among other places.
Bill/Billsreef... excellent to hear an expert "marine greens" enthusiast chime in here! Indeed... for this organism at least, (improved) water flow is very influentialas you have started/shared.
Which brings me/us to Andy's question(s) about dosing and outfitting for "Chaeto" overall (iron, etc.). Really, mate... Chaetomorpha is truly a staggeringly hardy and adaptable genera/variety! With reef-quality water that is good enough to keep cnidarians healthy (regular water changes, etc.)... you need not worry too much about dosing specifically for Chaeto beyond normal trace element/mineral supplementation. They really are quite adaptable to a very (!) wide range of lighting too. Anything approaching 5 watts per gallon (arghhh! I hate rules of thumb) and of a color leaning towards the warm end of the spectrum will be fine (hence the reason why "cheap" lamps work well for Chaeto... crappy non-designer warm colored or aged lamps start or stray to the arm side of the spectrum).
Chaeto is so desrvedly popular in large part because of its great adaptability and hardiness.
kind regard to all,
Anthony
Andy -
What's the secret to "getting the ball rolling" (couldn't resist). I have ~ 600 gph going through a ~ 5 gal section(water volume) of my 30 gallon sump. The chaeto seems to sink after I clean it of detritus and doesn't want to float again for a couple of weeks and then it's time to clean the sump again. Also what is everybody's opinion on the bulb Melev has posted in his huge thread in the Reef Discussion forum. It's a power compact encased in a floodlight body. I'll post a link if I can find one.
thanks, Chris
thanks, Chris
sfsuphysics
Active member
Fishdoc, I think that bulb Melev uses is great. Now I haven't used it myself, but it fits the bill of everything you want, its intense (65 watts wasn't it, and they're "better" better watts too! More efficient ones than the watts per gallon rule, btw Anthony I hate those rules as well 
), it's compact (no 2-4 foot bulbs here), its focused (you point the light where you want it doesn't shine all over the place), it doesn't require anything overly special (a standard plug for bulbs, no ballasts, no endcaps, no worries about matching up exact bulbs), and its good price for the length the bulb lasts (CF bulbs have a life time of 5+ years, note: I'm unsure how the color spectrum works over this time line).
All this talk of flow, surge, etc has gotten me to rethink my future tank setup now and has actually given me a bit of an idea. I was toying with the idea of using a skimmerbox inside my show tank (135g) and pulling a siphon straight to my macro-tank (50g) without the need for an outside overflow box, since the other tank itself would essentially be that outside box and keep the flow regulated, unfortunately that tank on the stand I got (free tank + cheap $20 stand) is about 10" lower than the show tank that idea went out the window. Although I have been toying with putting it up on blocks to raise it, it just would look to ghetto. Now with this surge idea, I might have the perfect solution, siphon all the overflow to surge box/bucket/tank (whatever I get my hands on) the surge itself would prevent oversiphoning from occuring (just like the outside overflow box does), and then instead of putting a steady current into the macro tank (ie refugium) it would surge it when the surge filled to the trigger point.
The benifit of this is I get my surge action, the same amount of flow is still occuring just with breaks inbetween (which could actually be benificial), and best of all malfunctions are no longer an issue, since if for whatever reason the surge flapper (or whatever mechnism I go with) fails the surge won't overflow since it'll stop when it reaches the level of the show tank, or if the flapper doesn't go down, then I have a standard overflow (of course if the return pump fails there could be issues). Best of all, no need for an additional pump to fill the surge.
Anyways sorry to sidetrack, just had some musings I wanted to share, if anyone is interested in a diagram I'll whip one up later, now I gotta go to work though. Man I love this thread
), it's compact (no 2-4 foot bulbs here), its focused (you point the light where you want it doesn't shine all over the place), it doesn't require anything overly special (a standard plug for bulbs, no ballasts, no endcaps, no worries about matching up exact bulbs), and its good price for the length the bulb lasts (CF bulbs have a life time of 5+ years, note: I'm unsure how the color spectrum works over this time line).All this talk of flow, surge, etc has gotten me to rethink my future tank setup now and has actually given me a bit of an idea. I was toying with the idea of using a skimmerbox inside my show tank (135g) and pulling a siphon straight to my macro-tank (50g) without the need for an outside overflow box, since the other tank itself would essentially be that outside box and keep the flow regulated, unfortunately that tank on the stand I got (free tank + cheap $20 stand) is about 10" lower than the show tank that idea went out the window. Although I have been toying with putting it up on blocks to raise it, it just would look to ghetto. Now with this surge idea, I might have the perfect solution, siphon all the overflow to surge box/bucket/tank (whatever I get my hands on) the surge itself would prevent oversiphoning from occuring (just like the outside overflow box does), and then instead of putting a steady current into the macro tank (ie refugium) it would surge it when the surge filled to the trigger point.
The benifit of this is I get my surge action, the same amount of flow is still occuring just with breaks inbetween (which could actually be benificial), and best of all malfunctions are no longer an issue, since if for whatever reason the surge flapper (or whatever mechnism I go with) fails the surge won't overflow since it'll stop when it reaches the level of the show tank, or if the flapper doesn't go down, then I have a standard overflow (of course if the return pump fails there could be issues). Best of all, no need for an additional pump to fill the surge.
Anyways sorry to sidetrack, just had some musings I wanted to share, if anyone is interested in a diagram I'll whip one up later, now I gotta go to work though. Man I love this thread
Anthony Calfo
New member
Chris... in your case, a quick and easy fix to get this Chaeto tumbling would be to:
- keep the refugium vessel free of any large obstructions beyond the Chaeto
-apply your water flow via something like a quickly rigged spray bar or several tees across a feed pipe. This bar is to be placed at or just slightly below the surface of the water the length of one short end wall of the aquarium (like the lip mentioned higher up in this thread). Aim this effluent water at a slightly downward angle but mostly jetting across the planar surface. This will create very simple rolling recirc of water in the tank. It really is as literal and simple as it sounds.
Anth-
- keep the refugium vessel free of any large obstructions beyond the Chaeto
-apply your water flow via something like a quickly rigged spray bar or several tees across a feed pipe. This bar is to be placed at or just slightly below the surface of the water the length of one short end wall of the aquarium (like the lip mentioned higher up in this thread). Aim this effluent water at a slightly downward angle but mostly jetting across the planar surface. This will create very simple rolling recirc of water in the tank. It really is as literal and simple as it sounds.
Anth-
Anthony Calfo
New member
thrlride... 20X is really just a ballpark guide. Like lighting... it needs to be adjusted/finessed on a case by case basis for the specific animals you keep... and presumes you will keep a realistic and compatible group of organisms that can actually fare well under the standardized parameters you set.
That said... the 10-20X guide is for the individual tank (display or refugium). Thus... for Chaeto in a 20 gall 'fuge... a 400gph flow (20X) is not asking a lot. Its not enough flow in many cases (like when significant particulates enter from incoming water). In such cases where aquarists get misled to use the old slow-flow recs (under 10X)... it is no wonder the refugium becomes a cess-pool of nuisance algae.
Slow flow in most any refugium (other than settling chamber styles that are actively serviced) has been one of the single biggest tidbits of "mythinformation" promoted at large in recent years. Its patently bad husbandry IMO.
Anthony
That said... the 10-20X guide is for the individual tank (display or refugium). Thus... for Chaeto in a 20 gall 'fuge... a 400gph flow (20X) is not asking a lot. Its not enough flow in many cases (like when significant particulates enter from incoming water). In such cases where aquarists get misled to use the old slow-flow recs (under 10X)... it is no wonder the refugium becomes a cess-pool of nuisance algae.
Slow flow in most any refugium (other than settling chamber styles that are actively serviced) has been one of the single biggest tidbits of "mythinformation" promoted at large in recent years. Its patently bad husbandry IMO.
Anthony
Anthony,
The fuge just contains chaeto and the water comes over a baffle on one end and then goes over another one so I have a good stream across the surface. The reason I think it's not working is because the chaeto isn't floating. Would adding the lip you described but angling it slightly downward and putting it on top of the incoming water instead of below help in any way. I know it's hard to describe over the net and I aprechiate your help. I may just have to cut a piece and play with it. A spraybar really isn't practical for the setup I have. I allready have three pumps in another section of the sump and I don't want to add another.
thanks, Chris
The fuge just contains chaeto and the water comes over a baffle on one end and then goes over another one so I have a good stream across the surface. The reason I think it's not working is because the chaeto isn't floating. Would adding the lip you described but angling it slightly downward and putting it on top of the incoming water instead of below help in any way. I know it's hard to describe over the net and I aprechiate your help. I may just have to cut a piece and play with it. A spraybar really isn't practical for the setup I have. I allready have three pumps in another section of the sump and I don't want to add another.
thanks, Chris
Anthony Calfo
New member
Chris... the baffles are an impediment and, even if not, diffuse the flow. You do not want to angle the lip downward either as this will break the pattern of flow. You are missing the point here my friend. Water flow needs to be focussed and horizontally shot across the surface to make this long rolling flow pattern.
Your baffle instead is nothing more than and overflowing dam. Indeed, do experiment/try this my friend... even take some clamps and a strip of plastic and rig up a small temporary lip to the overflow side of that baffle. Its tough for both of us here perhaps to explain via text. bummer
do take a stab at it and holler back. Take pics too if you can
Anthony
Your baffle instead is nothing more than and overflowing dam. Indeed, do experiment/try this my friend... even take some clamps and a strip of plastic and rig up a small temporary lip to the overflow side of that baffle. Its tough for both of us here perhaps to explain via text. bummer
do take a stab at it and holler back. Take pics too if you can
Anthony
Anthony Calfo
New member
thanks Chris... all good too
The temporary rigging of clamps will allow you to experiment with optimal lip height and depth for optimal flow.
Please do share your results
The temporary rigging of clamps will allow you to experiment with optimal lip height and depth for optimal flow.
Please do share your results
tstone
New member
Anthony
I disagree with you on the grounds that we are using the fuge as not only nutrient export with chaeto but also to grow pods, mysis and other small critters that (correct me if I am wrong here) like calmer waters.
I think the slow flow is more for pod and critter health/growth.
As you put it earlier in this thread it is a highly adaptable macro. The chaeto grows well anyway with strong enough light.
In my opinion the fuge is a nursery for bio-diversity and a nutrient export tank
I think for overall health of the fuge slow flow is the way to go.
I don't think 50GPH in a 30g fuge is good but certainly 200GPH is fine.
Who cares if there is some cyano? It is consuming nutrients just like chaeto. Just siphon it off when you harvest the macro.
Just more nutrient export.
I think nutrient export is a part of the equation but bio-diversity is a building block for stability.
IMO
I disagree with you on the grounds that we are using the fuge as not only nutrient export with chaeto but also to grow pods, mysis and other small critters that (correct me if I am wrong here) like calmer waters.
I think the slow flow is more for pod and critter health/growth.
As you put it earlier in this thread it is a highly adaptable macro. The chaeto grows well anyway with strong enough light.
In my opinion the fuge is a nursery for bio-diversity and a nutrient export tank
I think for overall health of the fuge slow flow is the way to go.
I don't think 50GPH in a 30g fuge is good but certainly 200GPH is fine.
Who cares if there is some cyano? It is consuming nutrients just like chaeto. Just siphon it off when you harvest the macro.
Just more nutrient export.
I think nutrient export is a part of the equation but bio-diversity is a building block for stability.
IMO
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