Regal Angelfish in trouble

Gordonious

Gordonious

Active member
Regal Angelfish in trouble

Despite the warning from the articles I read I purchased a Regal Angelfish. One from the Solomon Islands with a blue stomach. I bought him from Dr. Mac of Pacific East Aqauculture who believes he was collected in a good manner and should be a healthy hardy fish. I was told he was eating very well before I purchased them and they had him several weeks before they sold it to me.

He has not really ate anything since I brought him home accept the tail off an abalone, about the size of an eraser on a pencil. I have tried Mysis, angelfish diet, formula one, formula two, Sea Veggies, nori, squid, brine shrimp, krill….probably more, but my memory fails me. Sometimes I added Selcon, sometimes I didn’t. The last week the fish seemed happy and healthy accept for two things, the hunger strike and an itch he had above his left eye.

The tank conditions I put him up were great until last night when the tanks ran for about 12 hours with out heaters. The tank was a bit cloudy when I woke up, but after a slow water change and a lot of skimming things are doing better. His breathing seems to be a bit faster today though and I am really worried about him. The tank is a 30g tank with a shallow aragonite bed and a 20g sump. I am running an urchin skimmer as filtration.

Below I have a photo and links to two videos.

Please let me know if the fish needs to be treated for the spot about his eye and any ideas you might have about jump starting his diet.

Jon

PS I bought this fish with birthday money. It was almost a year ago when the last fish I bought for my birthday passed away. I have bad luck buying fish for my birthday. :-(

<CENTER>
<A HREF="http://www.gordonious.com/RC/Summer07/IMG_1952cs.JPG"><IMG SRC="http://www.gordonious.com/RC/Summer07/IMG_1952cs.JPG"></A>
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<A HREF="http://www.gordonious.com/RC/Summer07/HPIM8125.MPG">Movie 1</A><BR>
<A HREF="http://www.gordonious.com/RC/Summer07/HPIM8126.MPG">Movie 2</A><BR>


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I've been thinking about setting up a hatchery. Thanks for mentioning it, that may have pushed me to actually do it.
 
Someone also suggested trying a little bit of zoos/polyps to get his appetite jump started. What are peoples thoughts on this? I wouldn't do a lot to not harm the water quality.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10461335#post10461335 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gordonious
I've been thinking about setting up a hatchery. Thanks for mentioning it, that may have pushed me to actually do it.
Click to expand...
I think raising LBS is a major PIA .. just pick up the phone and makes some calls to your LFS someone is likely to sell LBS .. a couple bucks will go a LONG way.
 
Live brine may initiate feeding. But cannot be used as a nutritional food source. Brine has no nutritional value. You would have to soak the brine in selcon to give it nutritional value. You picked a tough fish to keep. I work at a fish store on the weekends. We have had a couple of these Angels, I've never seen one eat yet. Try soaking the food in extreme garlic for 15 to 20 min. Try feeding thru out the day. As for the mark above the eye, it looks like a rub that removed the pigment their. Keep an eye on it. Hopefully he won't develop a popeye.
 
I don't like the scratching. Keep a very close eye on him and if he keeps scratching he may need to be treated.

Call Dr. Mac and ask specifically what and how much he ate and what type of tank was he in. I got a blue belly from him by mistake. His web site at the time stated they ONLY buy and sell Red Sea Regals, but when it showed up it was pacific. They also told me it was eating, but never did for me.

As you know these are very delicate fish. I have a pair of Red Sea Regals and one prefers meaty foods like mysis, the other prefers flake (Veggie flakes and OSI) and spectrum pellets. As stated above call around and buy a bag of adult brine shrimp and also see if you can get some macro algae. Just keep placing small pieces of different foods and siphon up extra food.
 
Ken different animals from different regions could live through 74 during a seasonal change, but a quick flash to it over night with my animals form all over... I don't know. 74 is also what it was at in the morning when the sun was blasting into my parents sun room made with 3 walls of glass doors. The room warms up quickly and in the middle of the night is much cooler. (even with 90* days the temp at night is around 70 especially near the beach and the AC is still running)

I wrote him a long e-mail and in it I asked specifically what type and brand of food, but it sounded as if I made him mad and that particular question he did not answer.

Buying a bag of live brine is a good idea. Normally I wouldn't have an LFS that sells them, but I am on the opposite side of the state helping my gf move out and there is an LFS here that sells them. I will have to pick some up.

I thought about buying something like a ball sponge or something like that, but Dr. Mac is out and there is no other LFS I would trust to get an animal from and skip a qt period.(I would probably be importing disease)

Jon
 
I didn't get a very good response from Dr. Mac either. Not impressed with them.

There is no reason why he should sound mad or not tell you what it ate if he stated it was eating. If he doesn't tell you then I would be suspicious.
 
Gordonious,
The fish had been in our system for a couple of weeks and was imported by us direct from the Solomons. It was eating a variety of frozen foods. We feed a variety of frozen foods on a daily basis including mysis, O.N. angel forumla, form. 1 & 2, clams, shrimp, etc. Normally the regals from the Solomons do very well for us here, eating usually within a day of arrival. I sell relatively few fish, usually only those I can get from areas I know are hand collecting such as the Solomons and all are eating before we post them on the site. In a photo of your tank it seems the tank is pretty bare and this could add to stress to this fish. I think it would be more comfortable for this fish if you had it in a tank with some more rock so it can find a hiding area when it needs to and the rock can also provide it with more food as they do often like to nibble on critters on the rock. When you emailed me I recommended that you treat it immediately. Your tank has very few if any hiding places and a larger angel that is new to the tank may be stressed in such an environment. If the fish is scratching check your pH, if it is low this can cause them to scratch or due to parasitic infestation. If the water quality is OK then I recommend treating with copper.

Large Angels,
You had purchased a regal from me quite a while ago, I don't recall exactly but something like a year or two ago before I was importing from the Solomons, and we had a mistake on the web site about the origin of the fish and refunded your money, I do not recall any issue about not otherwise responding promptly to your concerns.
 
Dr. Mac. It was a year and 4 months ago and it was a Solomons, according to you. You did refund the money as it was mislabeled on your site. But saddly the fish never ate and starved to death.
 
Sorry to hear about the loss.

I get the Solomon Regals now direct from there and they come in great and usually eat within a day of arrival. Some can be a bit more finicky than others and for them I do feed frozen brine shrimp, but only to get them to eat initially as the brine shrimp are not very nutritious. I do not recommend using live brine shrimp unless you have raised them yourself. I have never found one of the Solomon Regals not to eat here.
 
Gordonious:

I'd say your predicament is probably par for the course.

I've been wanting a Regal Angel for some time, but haven't gotten one because I've heard from a variety of sources that it's nearly impossible to get them to eat.

If things work out, I'd sure like to know how you did it, so that I could give it a try.

Good luck.
 
Percula9, does it need to be <B><A HREF=”http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/197881/product.web”>Garlic Xtreme</A></B>(Kent) or would the other brands such as Seachem’s<B><A HREF=”http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/198701/product.web”>Garlic Guard </A></B> work? I didn't know if there was info out there stating that this product is superior by far.

I realize the tank is fairly bare, but it is a lot better then a bare bottom qt tank set up several days before which most people would probably recommend. I figured the tank would hold him until I was sure he was ok and did not need to be treated. After I know he is ok then I will move him to a 75 reef with LR full of life and lots of hiding spots. I have been thinking about adding a large piece of PVC pipe just as a hiding spot for the time being. I am also going to throw in some more money plant(halmidea) because he nipped at a little bit that was in there till it turned white. I also have some razor calurpa I could grow in there. There were some zoanthids in the tank when he started that somehow got removed from the rock they were on, some I found on the substrate the rest he may have eaten.

I hadn’t heard that the scratching could be due to a pH problem. I had checked the pH using a little test kit and figured with as much water changes as I was doing that it should be fine, but I will check it with my pin point meter when I return home, thanks for that idea.

The white spot above his eye in the picture is what I thought was causing him to scratch. Do all Regals have a bit of white above their eyes?

Captain Bucket I will keep you updated. I am going to do what ever I can, but try not to do or change too much at a time on the little guy.

Jon
 
Damn it. Stupid MS word makes those wierd " marks. Here are the two links for the two products I bought. I'd like to return one or the other, which ever one I won't need.


<A HREF="http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/pro...81/product.web">Garlic Xtreme(Kent)</A>

<A HREF="http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/pro...01/product.web">Garlic Guard(Seachem)</A>
 
Attempt #3 with out RCs abbreviated URLs. I hate when computers make choices for you and try to think on their own.

<A HREF="http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/197881/product.web">Garlic Xtreme(Kent)</A>

<A HREF="http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/198701/product.web">Garlic Guard(Seachem)</A>
 
Well a bit later and it's eye that it has been scratching has become foggy. It's breathing continues to get heavier and faster. I tried mysis today with soaked in Garlic Xtreme with no dice. I also threw in a rock with a single polyp of zoanthid on it and no luck. Any info or suggestions would help. At this point it is impossible for me to treat him as I don't know what is going on and even if I did I don't know if I want to remove the fish to a bare bottom uncycled tank during it's hunger strike. It seems as this point that I am going to lose the fish. I will continue to try the foods I have already tried alternating using selcon and xtreme to soak. Tomorrow I will make a trip to Lowe's or HD to get a large piece of PVC to cut a section out as a hiding place.

Jon
 
There are a couple of things that could give the symptoms of cloudy eye and heavy breathing. Ich, velvet or flukes. Best way to tell if it has flukes or velvet is to do a 2 min FW dip in a clear container. See if there is "dust" on the bottome, indication of velvet, or "jelly" like things, flukes. FW dips does not work on ich. It may also be stressfull on some fish.

Cupramine is an excellent copper treatment for ich or velvet. I've used it on numerous types of angels with excellent result. Copper does not kill flukes. Prazipro or fluke tabs. IME fluke tabs may not be tolerated by some fish, but Prazipro is excellent for flukes.
 
From the advice I recieved on another forum I am just about to start a hyposalinity treatment. I have already removed all the fish to a bare bottom hospital tank.
 
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