Requirements for zoa/paly?

Prince916

New member
what are the requirements for keeping zoa/paly?

I have a sps tank with lots of flow and 8x54w t5 on a 90g. My tank sometimes have low nutrients when i do water change thats done bi-weekly.

I really want to start keeping zoa/paly but not sure if i could. Its hard to keepsoft corals in my tank.
 
If you have SPS you should be able to have zoas, yes!! Many people do and have a great tank!
Don't think the zoas need very high nutrients in the water.

I encourage you to get a nice small colony of zoanthids and try out. Avoid the 1 or 3 polyps deals. Don't get caught on those cartoon names that will normally co$t lot$ of money!!! Just get what you think is beautiful and enjoy!

The more polyps the colony has, the easiest will be for them to adapt to any change (new system).

Make sure you dip your corals and zoas before introduce in your system. Place the zoas, as you do with SPS/ LPS corals, on the sand in order to allow them to the new lights.
You've got enough light and hopefully you keep you system in shape (maintenance).
Keep your skimmer running!

Don't worry about your water flow. Most zoas will do great and adapt to a good water flow.

You can target feed the zoas with LPS food or other coral foods once a week.

Read posts in this zoa forum and get tips.
You'll learn every day, just as we do!

Go ahead!

Zoas will do great in a SPS system!! :thumbsup:

If you can, post a picture of your tank here!

Grandis.
 
Like SPS's consume a lot of CA, zoas consume a lot of iodide.

I do believe they need some available iodide (and I dose iodide), but to say they need as much as the calcium for SPS would be a little extreme, don't you think? They don't need a lot, I guess.

Please let us know if you have any article or other data to sustain your post.
I would like to see that very much.
Thanks for the reminder! :wave:

Grandis.
 
Just based on my limited experience. My last 210 aquarium was full of zoas and shrooms. And I have to dose 15 ml every day :D KH as well.
 
Just based on my limited experience. My last 210 aquarium was full of zoas and shrooms. And I have to dose 15 ml every day :D KH as well.

Interesting! 15ml every day is a lot to me!! :eek1:
Please tell me why did you the that decision.
Why did you think you have to.
Do you have problems with algae?
Thanks,

Grandis.
 
I tested the iodide level with the Salifert Iodine test kit first. Then used the Seachem dose calculator to figure out the required dose (15ml in my case) Just like you I couldn't believe zoas consume that much I2 first, until I tested it myself. At that time the algae was under control. Acutally the coraline was growing quite fast.
 
Please tell us more about it.
I'm sure others will be very happy to hear too.

You've said "at that time algae was under control"...
Would be great if you could explain any algae related problem with your iodide dosing.
Do you have or had algae issues because of the dosing?

Also, how much zoas you've got? Lots of colonies all over the tank?
What other additives are you using?
Maintenance? lights?

My point in saying they don't need so much of iodide is just because I dose little and they do fine. If I bring the dose up the algae will be annoying. I've tried.
I wonder now if there is a relationship between iodide and growth/reproduction (tissue formation), pigmentation, etc...

Do you target feed your zoas?

Any articles?
Anybody else?

Good topic!

Pics?

Thanks,
Grandis.
 
BB is fine. What kind of softies you have kept before? Most of the softies I kept before were quite hardy. Some still survives till now. Is your water parameters correct and chemicals in balance?
 
90% of the corals in my previous tank were zoas. The others were shrooms. I had a fuge (5 gal) full of macro algae. Lighting were 3x250W MH. Nusiance algae wasn't an issue, thanks to the fuge I think. I am pretty sure I2 plays an important role of zoas health and reproduction. If I didn't dose enough, some zoas would close up. Some polys grew out of control. AK was another chemical I dosed a lot (based on the result of testing like I2). I had over 10 fish at the peak and their excretion fed the zoas well :D I didn't change water a lot neither. May be once a month for less than 10%.
 
The tank is BB. I tried keeping soft corals in the past but could never keep them alive long enough.

Did you ever dose iodide solution? :D

Ok, other things here would be:
What type of system you've got and what method you use for the SPS?
Balling?
ZEOvit?
Other?

Water changes?
Skimmer?
Lights?
Feeding regimen?

Please bring up any ideas why you think you couldn't be able to keep zoas or set corals besides nutrient rates.

Grandis.
 
I didn't read the whole thread and I'm sure Grandis commented on it, but IMO, water quality above all else... Personally and jus to add, I disagree with the thought that is out there that zoas like a "dirtier" water... Complete BS IMO...
 
I don't think zoanthus,palythoa or protopalythoa benefit from iodine dosing or have a particular need for it. The hundreds of colonies I have do well without it. I've dosed it in the past without any discernable benefit. Zoanthus like light , low nutrient water, flow. and a bit of organic carbon. Palythoa and protopalythoa like to eat zooplankton. Zoanthus don't show much feeding response and benefit from some organic carbon in the water ( ie, mine like vodka and vinegar) to meet their heterotrophic needs.
 
I don't think zoanthus,palythoa or protopalythoa benefit from iodine dosing or have a particular need for it. The hundreds of colonies I have do well without it. I've dosed it in the past without any discernable benefit. Zoanthus like light , low nutrient water, flow. and a bit of organic carbon. Palythoa and protopalythoa like to eat zooplankton. Zoanthus don't show much feeding response and benefit from some organic carbon in the water ( ie, mine like vodka and vinegar) to meet their heterotrophic needs.

I think all zoanthids benefit from some organic carbon. I do think that corals and clams also benefit from organic carbon also.

Zoanthids are known not to be found in the wild with much food in their guts and not to grab much food when offered in tanks, I know. That said we would think already they naturally wouldn't live if there was another way to obtain nutrition but through absorption from water and light (zooxanthellae) only, right?
Well, I also see that if they ingest certain foods in closed systems is because that would be beneficial to them, as I've confirmed IME. I believe that the key here is food particle size and type. They ingest small tinny particles.
Have you seen your Zoanthus spp. pooping? That's not from organic absorption only, but particles, if not zooxanthellae (partial/major bleaching).

I do feed my zoanthus spp. colonies and they grab/ingest/digest foods offered. They also manifest better growth, colors, response and reproduction when they are fed. The water flow plays with their healthy as well as all the params and light! So I think in a closed system they actually can take advantage to the food particles in order to substitute their needs for nutrient absorption, which is probably very limited in comparison to their original natural environment.

To me all zoanthids sustain their metabolic needs mainly through the zooxanthellae, but they all need the right sized and type of food particles to fully thrive. To feed is to help. If you don't feed them that's ok, they will still live, as we all know.
I still don't really know how much we should feed them in closed systems, but I know it shouldn't be that much. I target feed once a week only and that's more than enough to me. When you target feed you are offering a lot of particles at once and they will storage that energy until next feeding. Perhaps the ideal would be to target feed them very small amounts every day, but if you have a life...

Bottom line is: if they have mouth is to eat. :idea:

I still don't know why many people say that their zoanthus app don't grab/ingest/digest offered foods. I think they are offering wrong sized and type of food particles.

In regards to iodide, well I do see that soft corals could have benefits from it and zoanthids in general, but the need for supplementation is very low. I noticed that when I stopped dosing iodide in my aquarium the zoas were not as vivid as when I did. I have stopped for 3 weeks to a month to test without changing much with my maintenance and have to attribute to the iodide additions. I believe that with a good skimmer a small iodide dosing would be beneficial, yes. I don't have a hard evidence for what I've observed though. I have not major problems with algae doing that and the coralline algae is great, so...

Perhaps the vodka or vinegar dosing would somehow help in the absence of iodide additions? I don't dose vinegar nor vodka. Never did.

Grandis.
 
There is a difference between zoanthus and palythoa, protopalythoa. All are mixotrophic to some extent and need more than photsynthesis to meet thier need for organic carbon.
Zoanthus do not generally demonstrate much of a feeding response except to specialized foods to which they are accustomed to like urchin eggs or symbiont sponge cells in some cases . Since they are high reef animals they are highly photosynthetic but still have some need for organic material to supplement photosynthesis. Palythoa and protopalythoa come from more turbid waters and readily grab zooplankton of varies sizes. Zoanthus , tend to react to the spray of food but I think it's more out of irritation than a feeding response most of the time.

The brown material they expel is likely excess zooxanthelae and or some of the carbohydrates produced by it.

EricBorneman offers this advice on captive care for zoanthus in his work "Aquarium Corals"
(pgs 187 and188)

" The aquarist may not have to be overly concerned with feeding these animals ,as zoanthids have been found to feed largely on bacteria ,algae and dissolved organic material. Some ofteh zooxanthele may depend on the animal rather than the environment for key nutrients. In fact, the metabolic by-poducts of the bacteria that Zoanthus species culture within their gastrovascular cavities may be important in probiding inoranic nutrients used in lipid and portein synthesis..."

Mine do very with vodka and vinegar dosing and the bacteria and consequent microfuana produced . The tanks where they are kept also hold several fish. Feeding ar 2x per day with a variety of frozen foods including small particle foods . The zoanthus do not grab it . The palys do.

Grandis:

I do feed my zoanthus spp. colonies and they grab/ingest/digest foods offered.

What food are you a offering them?
 
Hi tmz:

Thanks for the post!
Please let me know where did you see about the urchin eggs and symbiont sponges as been specialized foods for Zoanthus. I'm not doubting what you've said, just would like to read more about it. That's very interesting!
I don't think those are the ONLY food they ingest, and I think/hope you would agree with me somehow.

Please let me know what you mean by "high reef animals".
If that would be on the shallow waters, well the Palythoas and Protopalythoas are also found in very, very shallow waters, many times exposed to the air for hours during low tide. Some Zoanthus are found kinda deep also, so that would depend on the species I guess...

I'm sorry but I don't agree with the affirmation that "Palythoa and Protopalythoa would come from more turbid waters". I've seen Palythoa, Protopalythoa and Zoanthus in the same type of environment in many occasions. Both non turbid and turbid water for all three types of zoanthids. Just my observations.

Feding response in Zoanthus is to the "taste" and not to the "reaction to the spray of food". It's not irritation nor response against the touch of any particle.
Please try turn off your pumps and drop a "good tasting food (for zoas)" on them. You'll see them closing with the food and opening without any food particle, meaning they have ingested. Try Fauna Marin Zoa/Acan food or Reef Roids. If you drop a very tiny portion on the side of the disc you'll see the skirts on that side grabbing the food and bringing to the mouth! If they don't do immediately, please wait like 5 seconds.

Yes, zooxanthellae and carbohydrates, and in some case food particles digested, if so.

Thanks for the book's quote! They don't really like algae IME. They could have algae in them, but they are actually very picky for algae. I can't see what algae Eric was talking about. They reject most algae on them. Not to put his statement down!! He said " largely". Well... I would like to know what type, so I could offer here. I've tried many types and sizes. Phytoplankton... all rejected.

They reject fish waste particles as well. I've tried many times with all zoanthids. My Zoanthus spp. actually grab the fish waste and release them in seconds. That doesn't happen with the coral foods I offer them.

I feed them Fauna Marin Zoa/Acan food, Reef Roids (plankton, including a "special" zooplankton) and Coral Frenzy, mainly. I've got lots of foods I've tried for years, but they like those the best. They also like the Reef Snow and Macrovore from Brightwell Aquatics too.
People told me to try Reef Chilli, but I didn't order that yet.
All the foods above are very well accepted by all Zoanthus spp. I've tried.

Main thing here is that I've noticed a difference when I fed them. They look more full, reproduce a little faster and the colors are a little brighter/strong. They also respond better to moving particles and any movements in the water in general more often.
:thumbsup:

Grandis.
 
I didn't read the whole thread and I'm sure Grandis commented on it, but IMO, water quality above all else... Personally and jus to add, I disagree with the thought that is out there that zoas like a "dirtier" water... Complete BS IMO...

Yep! :thumbsup:
LOL!

Grandis.
 
Borneman, same book cited above , is the source for the sponge, urchin egg and high reef animal notation. The gist of it is that zoanthus may be highly specialized in their feeding response depending on where the originate and that specialization may go beyond particle size.


I mean zoanthus generally live on the high reef in nature. They are highly autorophic need light and clean water. Proto palythoa and palythoa live in a variety of environs including more turbid nutirent rich water and many variants seem more dependent on food than zoanthus do. The palythoa and protopalythoa are likely more mixotrophic with a higher demand for an external source of organics.
The point is some palythoa and protopalythoa may tolerate higher nutrient water and lowere light better than zoanthus. Thus, the all too common notion that zoanthidae generally like dirty water and low light. They don't;some tolerate it better than others though and make up the shrtfall in photsyntetic activty from less light with feeding or absortion.. They are different animals form different environments with variable needs for the organics produced via p[hotsynthesis and other nutrients. IME, they all do well in clean water, not nutrient stripped water with good light/\, Mine do better with organic carbon dosing.
I don't think there is a large disagreement just some of the fine points particularly in the differences between among these animals.

Thanks for the feeding information.
I have tried Coral; Frenzy; didn't see what you saw. As for algae , some of the foods you cite include substantial planktonic algae. Eric Borneman notes algae consumption as a fact. He is a trusted authority.
 
I know that Eric is a trysted authority. Yesterday night I took a look at the book and saw about the urchin eggs and so on. Thanks!

No, I'm sorry, but Zoanthus spp., Palythoa spp. and Protopalythoa spp. are found all the time in clean nutrient water or nutrient rich water. I've seen them all over the place. It really doesn't matter. I don't know who told you that, or where did you read about it, but that's not true at all.
Sorry, just exposing my own experiences here.

Another thing is that if Palythoa would need a "nutrient rich environment" to thrive it wouldn't do so good in SPS tanks, I guess. By that I mean in tanks with high filtration including GAC and strong skimmer with regular partial water changes.

I've seen Zoanthus spp. in really "dirty waters", close to river mouths!!!
Palythoas are found in strong currents, close to wave action, crystal clean waters...

Grandis.
 
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