Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?
- Thread starter finneganswake
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For $14 you can not go wrong. I bought mine new when it came out for the tune of + $100. You will not believe the data and info in this book 
Look here at the table of contents Du . Click on the tabs to go to the next page
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/008...306447?_encoding=UTF8&p=S002&ns=1#reader-page
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/008...306447?_encoding=UTF8&p=S002&ns=1#reader-page
Values for these various things are going to vary tremendously from place to place in the oceans, especially in sediments where it varies with ORP and depth.
Here are some values for surface ocean water from the book "Biogeochemistry of Marine Dissolved Organic Matter"
DOC 60-90 uM
DON 3.7-7.5 uM
DOP 0.1-0.4 uM
DOC : DON 9-18
DOC : DOP 180-570
C:N
(in DOM) 300:22:1
The ratio of DIP to DOP varies with the season in many locations. In the English channel, inorganic forms predominate in the winter,and organic forms in the summer.
The DOP as a percent of TDP (total dissolved P): 0 - 100%
Open ocean 0-100%
Sargasso sea: 95-100%
North Pacific subtropical gyre 1%
Mediterranean 0-95%
Southern NW shelf Australia 33-86%
etc.
In sediment pore water:
C/N 2-30
I did not find C/Por N/P data for pore waters.
Here are some values for surface ocean water from the book "Biogeochemistry of Marine Dissolved Organic Matter"
DOC 60-90 uM
DON 3.7-7.5 uM
DOP 0.1-0.4 uM
DOC : DON 9-18
DOC : DOP 180-570
C:N
(in DOM) 300:22:1The ratio of DIP to DOP varies with the season in many locations. In the English channel, inorganic forms predominate in the winter,and organic forms in the summer.
The DOP as a percent of TDP (total dissolved P): 0 - 100%
Open ocean 0-100%
Sargasso sea: 95-100%
North Pacific subtropical gyre 1%
Mediterranean 0-95%
Southern NW shelf Australia 33-86%
etc.
In sediment pore water:
C/N 2-30
I did not find C/Por N/P data for pore waters.
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Thanks Randy 
Du, as Randy as shown and the book discuses, is that such values can be all over the place, as there are so many variables. Here is a long article on POM in seawater. In the book table 10 shows N rangin from17:1 to 0:5. If you want to learn more about this subject search for the ...Redfield Ratio
http://www.iopan.gda.pl/oceanologia/472wozni.pdf
Du, as Randy as shown and the book discuses, is that such values can be all over the place, as there are so many variables. Here is a long article on POM in seawater. In the book table 10 shows N
rangin from17:1 to 0:5. If you want to learn more about this subject search for the ...Redfield Ratiohttp://www.iopan.gda.pl/oceanologia/472wozni.pdf
finneganswake
In Memoriam
What's up with the obsession with phosphates? Phosphates have always been, and always will be, in tanks--this isn't even an issue with good husbandry. If you're obsessed with keeping every little 1/100th of a ppm of phosphates out of your tank, why don't you get rid of all of your fish? They will contribute far more phosphates to a tank than a chunk of live rock ever will.
Please add the following to "fuels algae, inhibits calcification, etc."--phosphate is absolutely necessary for corals to live.
finneganswake
In Memoriam
I was cruising RC and found a thread that I think is very applicable to this topic, as it directly addresses my belief that rock cooking is purely a short-term fix.
Notice how during the 3 months of cooking, the algae completely disappears. And 2 months after cooking, it is coming back.
I was hoping that a proponent of this theory could explain how this guy got rid of all that darn shedding and, golly gee Beaver, the algae came back anyway
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6361547#post6361547 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by johnnstacy
A year ago or so I started this reef tank. Bought the best equipment, read all I could and spent hours on reef central....
About 6 months into the tank I got this bloom of a very tough brown hair algae. Couldn't get snails to touch it. Here is a photo of it in the old tank:
I tried waiting it out. It just grew more and spread over most of the tank before I finally just said forget it and cooked the rock. 3 months I waited wanting to make sure it was all gone. After 3 months there was no sign of it. Put the rock in my new 180g and got it all set up again.
Now, about 2 months since I set it up, I am getting the same algae. So my question is this? Has anyone every just thrown away 250 lbs of beautiful rock because they found a type of algae that was resistant to everything? Here is my tank now. May as well get one last look:
In a couple more months it will likely cover most of the rock and will be encroaching on the corals.
I guess I just wonder I should actually just throw it out and start with new rock.
Notice how during the 3 months of cooking, the algae completely disappears. And 2 months after cooking, it is coming back.
I was hoping that a proponent of this theory could explain how this guy got rid of all that darn shedding and, golly gee Beaver, the algae came back anyway
SeanT
Premium Member
What an uninformed comment.
There is a concern for the amount of PO4 in our tanks for a simple reason.
Too much causes many problems.
Remember, that the phosphate level in the Ocean averages to be 0.005 ppm.
Trying to emulate that is virtually impossible in our closed systems.
So it is best to get it as low as it can be.
SeanT
Premium Member
Let's get this thread back on track.
You still haven't answered this yet.
You still haven't answered this yet.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6626456#post6626456 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PUGroyale
Hey Finn... Just for PO4's and giggles maybe you could outline the dangers in this dangerous trend
even the thread title is meant to inflame
If I may ask a silly question, when we see these levels of PO4 listed for the ocean or for various coral reefs, how were they measured? If a hobbyist wanted to do so just for giggles, could one send off a sample of our tank water and have it measured by the same technique? Seems like it could be interesting to find that result and compare it to our hobbyist test kit results...
finneganswake
In Memoriam
Right, but you act as if the phophate level is the ONLY variable in a successful aquarium, when it isn't even the only value at work in the limited field of algae control. I have yet to see a SINGLE post from you that addresses anything besides phosphates, so I have to come to the conclusion that you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Should I take my car to a mechanic that knows engines inside out but can't understand that in order for your car to run, the engine has to operate in tandem with the transmission?
An example--in a short-sighted attempt to lower phosphates, you suggest that everyone throw out what is regarded as the best form of denitrification, the sandbed. Why? Because a certain loudmouth on RC misinterprets a study of polluted estuaries. That's all it takes for you--one mention of phosphates and you're in panic mode.
When you get to the point that you can understand there are MANY more variables involved in a successful aquarium, maybe you'll be able to keep your tank free of algae and I'll consider listening to your advice. Until then, I have no doubt that, in the quest to lower your phosphates, you'll completely ignore the big picture and continue to wrestle with algae problems.
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