S. Haddoni carpet anemone spawning??

[BonsaiNut]

What did you see in any of these pictures that would give that away? He states his process for dosing but I'm wondering how you picked up on that from pictures?

To me, tanks with high maintained levels of dissolved minerals look very different from tanks without. SPS growth, coraline growth, rock encrustation, etc, all look very different and are much heavier. A dead giveaway is plastic plumbing fixtures covered with heavy coraline algae. You typically won't see this in a standard reef tank, unless the reef keeper does tons of water changes.

Quite frankly, it looked a lot like one of my tanks when I was dripping kalk I think the results speak for themselves - your sps growth is probably very good. However you have to stay on top of the chemistry a lot more than you would if you were just doing water changes. It also suggested to me that your tank might have very different water characteristics from the original tank, unless that person followed a very similar care regimen.

 

[TEDALLEN80]

i have the same coraline growth in my 29 bio cube and i only do 5 gallon water changes every 2 weeks.

In the system the carpet is in there is a bunch of softies. I try to do bi-weekly water changes 50 gallons at a time. Total volume of 300 gallons of more

 

[BonsaiNut]

i have the same coraline growth in my 29 bio cube and i only do 5 gallon water changes every 2 weeks.

Like I said, it is rare to see this type of coraline growth unless people dose calc or do a ton of water changes. It is rare to find people who do 35% monthly water changes

Regardless, my point still stands, which is that your friend may not follow the same husbandry practices. Instead of arguing about coraline growth, I would recommend you get on the phone to your friend and ask him his water pH and alk. You may be surprised to find out what it is. Based on the behavior of your anemone, I am pretty sure it is very different. He probably doesn't dose calc, and his pH and alk are probably low.

 

[tufacody]

I didn't read the whole thread, but this would otherwise be a very expensive nem ($3-500), and is fairly rare. It's probably also at least 100 years old. Have you considered giving it back to the original owner? It would be such a shame to lose such a beauty if the original owner has been doing well with it.

 

[BonsaiNut]

It's probably also at least 100 years old.

Why do people post stuff like this? Prove to me this anemone isn't 2 years old.

(I agree this is a beautiful specimen, and a rare color morph. However I disagree that taking it back to the last owner would do any good - and might at this point be a death sentence. I think we probably have a situation where two aquariums have very different water chemistries, and taking it back to the first owner after it is barely acclimating to the second would likely be too stressful. I could always be wrong but I wouldn't do it if it belonged to me...)

 

[TEDALLEN80]

Regardless, my point still stands, which is that your friend may not follow the same husbandry practices. Instead of arguing about coraline growth, I would recommend you get on the phone to your friend and ask him his water pH and alk. You may be surprised to find out what it is. Based on the behavior of your anemone, I am pretty sure it is very different. He probably doesn't dose calc, and his pH and alk are probably low.

This wasnt my friend, it was a friend of a friend type of thing. As far as water chemistry, i know for a fact we used the same salt, and the anemone was in a reef tank. Water chemistry shouldnt be that far off from mine since we are both sps keepers. and generally people who keep sps keep their levels about the same (generally).

I dont want to argue about coraline growth either, but you have to understand why i question your methods of observation. I dont know you from anyone else on this forum.

I have had plenty of different methods, ideas, and plenty say this anemone is doomed. Some have said that theirs did the same for 3 weeks after a tank transfer. Some have not. I have to basically gather everyones information and make the actions that i believe are what will work. If i can breed clownfish fith a 90%+ success rate im sure i can point myself in the right direction with a little help. Thats why i started this thread.

I didn't read the whole thread, but this would otherwise be a very expensive nem ($3-500), and is fairly rare. It's probably also at least 100 years old. Have you considered giving it back to the original owner? It would be such a shame to lose such a beauty if the original owner has been doing well with it.

not going to happen.

100 years old :rolleye1:

 

[BonsaiNut]

As far as water chemistry, i know for a fact we used the same salt, and the anemone was in a reef tank. Water chemistry shouldnt be that far off from mine since we are both sps keepers. and generally people who keep sps keep their levels about the same (generally).

So I guess we'll never know... :eek1:

As far as why I am bothering you by posting to this thread, someone sent me an email asking me to help out with your anemone if I could. No skin off my back if you don't believe me or trust me I would simply recommend basing your thought processes on facts. First thing I would do is MEASURE the source water and then compare it to your water. Since you are unwilling to do this we have no idea if the water is any factor whatsoever. With no further information, you are correct, I cannot help you.

 

[tufacody]

My comments on the age of this anemone are based on other studies and comments I have read. I have not personally conducted such studies, so if that discredits the comments, so be it. Here is one blurb on the internet I found very quickly. I have read similar comments in the recent Marine Fish and Reef magazine.

"It is impossible to determine age of a sea anemone, except for one that has been raised in an aquarium or tracked continuously in the wild from first settlement. A small one is not necessarily young, for coelenterates grow only if well fed and shrink if starved. Individuals of species that harbour anemonefishes have been monitored for several years with no apparent change in size (although that is difficult to measure, due to the absence of a skeleton). However, studies on other species, in field and laboratory, have led to estimated ages on the order of many decades and even several centuries. There are scattered records of temperate anemones surviving many decades in commercial aquaria, and the life-span of a small sea anemone in New Zealand has been calculated, based on actuarial tables, to be over 300 years! From such data, it is likely that most individuals of the "gigantic" sea anemones we have encountered during our field work exceed a century in age. This is also consistent with the generalization that large animals of all kinds typically are long-lived."

So if you want to know why I made that comment, that's why. It is in fact a generalization.

 

[TEDALLEN80]

So I guess we'll never know... :eek1:

As far as why I am bothering you by posting to this thread, someone sent me an email asking me to help out with your anemone if I could. No skin off my back if you don't believe me or trust me I would simply recommend basing your thought processes on facts. First thing I would do is MEASURE the source water and then compare it to your water. Since you are unwilling to do this we have no idea if the water is any factor whatsoever. With no further information, you are correct, I cannot help you.

the tank is no more. He was breaking down the tank and i can only keep trying to get ahold of him to find out what his water parameters were. I really do appreciate your help as well as others and i do take every comment into consideration.

day 6 pictures are to follow shortly

 

[TEDALLEN80]

My comments on the age of this anemone are based on other studies and comments I have read. I have not personally conducted such studies, so if that discredits the comments, so be it. Here is one blurb on the internet I found very quickly. I have read similar comments in the recent Marine Fish and Reef magazine.

"It is impossible to determine age of a sea anemone, except for one that has been raised in an aquarium or tracked continuously in the wild from first settlement. A small one is not necessarily young, for coelenterates grow only if well fed and shrink if starved. Individuals of species that harbour anemonefishes have been monitored for several years with no apparent change in size (although that is difficult to measure, due to the absence of a skeleton). However, studies on other species, in field and laboratory, have led to estimated ages on the order of many decades and even several centuries. There are scattered records of temperate anemones surviving many decades in commercial aquaria, and the life-span of a small sea anemone in New Zealand has been calculated, based on actuarial tables, to be over 300 years! From such data, it is likely that most individuals of the "gigantic" sea anemones we have encountered during our field work exceed a century in age. This is also consistent with the generalization that large animals of all kinds typically are long-lived."

So if you want to know why I made that comment, that's why. It is in fact a generalization.

well then i retract my :rolleye1:

but i will not return the nem. I just couldnt.

 

[TEDALLEN80]

puter i added more rock around the anemone just in case he decides to go hulk on me. here is day 6 results alot more inflation of the pedal disk: I say an improvement so far.

here is the rock dam that is anchored to the bottom of the tupperware.

 

[tufacody]

Thats doesn't look too bad. When my gig's mouth was gaping a little, I boosted the salinity a tad and it appeared to help. I would try 1.026. Nems seem to like full-strength salinity.

 

[TEDALLEN80]

yeah, i cant tell on my refractometer sometimes. Thats why i guess either or. Sometimes my eye sight isnt that great very close up.

 

[puter]

Looks good to me.:thumbsup:

The key thing now is to see if/hope that it will stay firmly anchored there without moving around over the next several days. My suggestion would be to continue to refrain from feeding it and to make no other environmental changes.

Good luck!

 

[TEDALLEN80]

So hold off on the water change??? i would like to knock one out but havent gotten around to it.

Also towards the top of the anemone you cant see it, but theres a rock too. Its in the shape of a "C" and i also added more sand over the course of about 2 hours to the tupperware.

 

[BonsaiNut]

My comments on the age of this anemone are based on other studies and comments I have read. I have not personally conducted such studies, so if that discredits the comments, so be it. Here is one blurb on the internet I found very quickly. I have read similar comments in the recent Marine Fish and Reef magazine.

"It is impossible to determine age of a sea anemone, except for one that has been raised in an aquarium or tracked continuously in the wild from first settlement. A small one is not necessarily young, for coelenterates grow only if well fed and shrink if starved. Individuals of species that harbour anemonefishes have been monitored for several years with no apparent change in size (although that is difficult to measure, due to the absence of a skeleton). However, studies on other species, in field and laboratory, have led to estimated ages on the order of many decades and even several centuries. There are scattered records of temperate anemones surviving many decades in commercial aquaria, and the life-span of a small sea anemone in New Zealand has been calculated, based on actuarial tables, to be over 300 years! From such data, it is likely that most individuals of the "gigantic" sea anemones we have encountered during our field work exceed a century in age. This is also consistent with the generalization that large animals of all kinds typically are long-lived."

So if you want to know why I made that comment, that's why. It is in fact a generalization.

I think I need to report this to SCOPES I have read the same quote over and over so many times it has (at least to me) become an urban legend. It is very similar to earlier claims about tridacnids and corals, which have since been proven false in light of extensive experience around growth rates and ages of adults.

Rather than depend on "scattered records of temperate anemones", I prefer to depend on real actual experience of dozens of members on this forum who have taken small (in some case bleached) tropical marine anemones that measure a couple of inches in size, and who have grown them into 18" monsters in a couple of years or less. It is clear that in the right environment these anemones can grow and multiply quickly. Therefore just because an anemone is large does not make it old.

I know you are trying to make a point about what a shame it would be if this creature were to die, however by posting this urban legend over and over it continues to have a life of its own on the Internet. The one part of the quote I wish people would remember is the first sentence: "It is impossible to determine age of a sea anemone, except for one that has been raised in an aquarium or tracked continuously in the wild from first settlement."

 

[puter]

The simple answer is to just hold off doing any water changes. If you can do them in such a way that they're "imperceptible" to the anemone (i.e. very slow, carefully matched parameters) then fine. In circumstances like ths I do water changes in one of two ways:

1) In setups that allow me to change the overall water volume, I siphon out several gallons of "old" water and drip in several gallons of new water over a long time (days sometimes).

2) In setups that require the overall water volume to remain constant I use a dual-head dosing pump to remove small amounts of old water and add new water at the same time.... again over long periods of time.

----

Just noticed something in the picture... is the intake to that powerhead as close to the anemone as it appears? If so, it'd be too close for me to be comfortable...

 

[TEDALLEN80]

I'll just hold off on the water change. I dont have the resources to do a slow change. I do however match the parameters by supplementing the water change water and mixing for 24 hours or more.

Which powerhead are you referring to. The little grey thing in the picture is from a sponge filter. My clowns like to play in it so i kept it in there

 

[tufacody]

I think I need to report this to SCOPES I have read the same quote over and over so many times it has (at least to me) become an urban legend. It is very similar to earlier claims about tridacnids and corals, which have since been proven false in light of extensive experience around growth rates and ages of adults.

Rather than depend on "scattered records of temperate anemones", I prefer to depend on real actual experience of dozens of members on this forum who have taken small (in some case bleached) tropical marine anemones that measure a couple of inches in size, and who have grown them into 18" monsters in a couple of years or less. It is clear that in the right environment these anemones can grow and multiply quickly. Therefore just because an anemone is large does not make it old.

I know you are trying to make a point about what a shame it would be if this creature were to die, however by posting this urban legend over and over it continues to have a life of its own on the Internet. The one part of the quote I wish people would remember is the first sentence: "It is impossible to determine age of a sea anemone, except for one that has been raised in an aquarium or tracked continuously in the wild from first settlement."

There is also the issue that healthy anemone tissue does not seem to degenerate. I appreciate your skepticism, but not willing to classify this one as an "urban legend" quite yet.

 

[BonsaiNut]

There is also the issue that healthy anemone tissue does not seem to degenerate. I appreciate your skepticism, but not willing to classify this one as an "urban legend" quite yet.

Based on this logic, it follows that because some trees can have lifespans of thousands of years, ALL trees have lifespans of thousands of years Or that if a plant is a tree, it must be thousands of years old Or that if a tree is a bristlecone pine, which is known to have a lifespan of thousands of years, that the tree must be thousands of years old

I have some bristlecone pine bonsai that I have raised from seed that would tend to disagree with this logic

All kidding aside, some of our thoughts around individual mortality break down in light of different biological processes. For example, all Valencia orange trees come from a single parent. All of them are grafts. For all I know, the original tree may even be dead. Are they offspring? Are they parts of the original parent? If a standard orange tree has a lifespan of 200 years, but I continue to graft daughter trees for 1000 years what then? (Grafting from one tree, to the next, to the next). When does one generation end, and one begin? By grafting, am I creating an individual with an infinite lifespan?

If I take an anemone that is 50 years old and cut it in half and have two individuals, are they each 50 years old? If I remove predators and let a single BTA clone unchecked, so that an entire reef is covered with them in 10 years, what then? What if all BTA's are actually clones from an original individual that was "born" 100,000 years ago? Does it make the individual more or less valuable?