Salt Analysis Study Results

Randy, Thanks for your response.
If salt mixes are a moving target due to frequent and unannounced planned or inadvertant formula changes, then it seems the only way to protect our aquariums is to do individual tests for each buckett or box we use. It would be nice if manufacturer's let us know their quality control measures but I'm sure that's unlikely.Which tests would you consider most prudent? Alkalinity? Calcium? Magnesium? Others? It seems in some of those other studies I read very high levels of metals and other elements relative to nsw. Should this be a major conern?
 
i would still be interested in seeing if we can find a salt that tests consistently. Many of you say this test was pointless but I think the most obvious conclusion we can draw, despite the small sample size and the fact that many of you may have known or suspected this already, is that we need to mix salt properly before adding water or buy bags in quantities we intend to mix altogether.

We can agree most salts aren't going to make or break our tank? What are the most important factors when chosing salt? Price has always been up there for me, but also consistently good numbers from the big 3. I personally don't want to test every batch and add what it is missing!?!?, I PAY SOMEONE TO DO THIS. I wanna know who's doing it best. That is why I'd like to continue down this road. I don't care if AWT benefits, so am I, IMO.
 
I believe most of the manufacturers have been fairly consistent with their mixes with the occasional bumps in the road. Kent recovered from their fiasco, Seachem recovered from theirs and I suspect RC will recover from theirs.

Since you have a 150 gal reef, and you do not want to supplement, then you must pick a salt mix to match your consumption of calcium and magnesium between water changes. I suspect most reefers will always have to bump alkalinity even between water changes. This isn't that difficult and may be just a little trial and error to find which works best for you.

Example: Lets say you decide to try Seachems Reef Salt. You mix a batch and make a 20% water change where the calcium is 540 ppm.

It will not turn your tank into 540 as only 20% was changed. Then by the time your next water change is due, you are ready for more calcium.

Some people think if you choose a salt mix that has 540 calcium, that your tank will always be that. Not true as calcium is being consumed all the time.

I don't know how heavily stocked your tank is, but if you do not want to supplement, you should try Coralife, Seachem Reef, or Kent. With the Kent, you may have to bump magnesium once in awhile.

If you find after a couple of months thats too much calcium, then you could drop to the next level which includes Tropic Marine Reef,, Red Sea Coral Pro and Reef Crystals.

I have a list of salts in the Reef Chemistry forum that compares most major brands.

BTW, Joe, I used to frequent Terry's Aquarium a few years back before it burned to the ground. Do you remember Terry's ?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11844358#post11844358 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by leeweber85
So how does one properly mix a new bucket of salt? Seems like it would be more work than it's worth.
Click to expand...

you can fully mix a 5g bucket in just a few minutes. if you have an empty bucket just pour the full one into it. repeat 4,5 times and your done
 
We are certainly all thankful for such a test run. It gives us a good overview of the current salt situation.

Of course, in a world where chemical resources are constantly becoming less available as the number of consumers rises, none of these figures will be valid for very long. No ones fault, simply a fact of life. Still, we now have a platform from which to base future tests. I would like to see these test performed yearly to monitor changes in salt formulations. Not so much to pick the 'best', rather to get a picture of the variance to be expected in salt mixes.

There are some disturbing quantities in a few of the mixes, but I have to ask myself; are they really that tragic? Small amounts of PO4, NO3, ammonia don't seem to be a real issue to me as we typically add this daily ourselves through feeding. A biologically functioning aquarium should be able to adapt itself to this addition. If we are finding this to be a problem in our tank, then, maybe, we should ask ourselves why is the system incapable of handling this. But I digress, as this thread is about the salt.

When we consider how accurately we can test our water at home, which is not very accurate IMO, then these numbers carry even less weight in the daily maintainance. I have had test kits with huge variances and have learned to live with the fact that we only have an estimate of the actual test values.

These results seem to support the practice of using a variety of salts for our aquariums. As we clearly see every salt shows some deficiencies, working with complimentary mixes may result in a better environment. Also, we see a trend in marine aquarium maintanence which is moving back toward NSW levels, instead of the high Ca+, Alk methods of the last 5-6 years. Interesting that Coralife is already there! Makes me wonder, just how much has this trend-oriented salt mixing cost us?

A personal thank you to the folks at AWT for having made this effort. Feels very good!
 
If salt mixes are a moving target due to frequent and unannounced planned or inadvertant formula changes, then it seems the only way to protect our aquariums is to do individual tests for each buckett or box we use. It would be nice if manufacturer's let us know their quality control measures but I'm sure that's unlikely.Which tests would you consider most prudent? Alkalinity? Calcium? Magnesium? Others?

I would certainly like a salt mix to match NSW. It is disappointing that so few achieve that, and perhaps more disappointing that so many do not even aspire to do so, but rather have made some decisions that they may or may not inform you of that they intentionally deviate from NSW in a variety of ways, many of which I do not care for.

What I elect to do is to select a salt mix with a long track record of success, and perhaps greater consistency than most, and then "fix" it as I deem necessary. IMO, that is a good strategy for everyone, even if they do not elect the same mix or corrections to it that I do.

I discuss the pros and cons of selecting salt mixes based on various different criteria here:

The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 1: The Salt Water Itself
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/rhf/index.php
 
Billy- I supplement my tank, and i test, i just do not want test and supplement a newly mixed batch of saltwater. I want that to be within an acceptable range, so that it won't throw off my predetermined supplement schedule based on my calcium uptake load. If I change 30 gallons of water with 350 calcium and 14dKh my supplementing is going to be more out of wack then if i use 420/11. thats all i meant and yes i understand how it gets used up differently and using a higher Ca doesn't necesarily replace supplementation.
BTW i remember Terry's, my best friend's brother, LPD cop, ended up running in there and saved a bunch of animals. Are you interested in a new club forming in our area, its in its infancy...PM me.
 
Randy,
I reread the article and several of the studies. Quite awhile ago after reading it the first time,, I adopted your position on fixing the salt mix rather than trying to get a salt mix to meet calcium, magnesium and alkalinity needs .This makes more senseto me than relying on manufacturer's numbers particularly when formulae change unnanounced.

I am,however,still concerned about toxic buildup from aluminum, lead copper,bromine etc .which significantly exceed nsw levels in most if not all mixes. Is it enough to rely on activated carbon and polypad for detoxification or are there other methods I may be missing? Or does all of this fall into the "nobody knows" except the urchins category?

Thanks again.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11848620#post11848620 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by poo-tang
Billy- I supplement my tank, and i test, i just do not want test and supplement a newly mixed batch of saltwater. I want that to be within an acceptable range, so that it won't throw off my predetermined supplement schedule based on my calcium uptake load.
Click to expand...

Please exercise caution here. I used Kent Marine salt for years (many!) because it always tested out great for what I needed. I stopped testing after a while as it was always spot on. Then, they got bought out by Central Pet. Then, I got a batch of salt from them (and so did many others) that had practically zero alk. The results were disastrous. Since then I make minimum tests of calcium, alkalinity and magnesium. Granted there are basically endless tests you could do to ensure you aren't poisoning your tank but not testing for those three is asking for trouble.
 
sherm, I am a believer in testing, at least, the first batch of every new bucket. Gives me piece of mind.

Joe, thanks but my job takes up most of my time and I, unfortunately, do not have the time to invest in a reef club, as much as I think it would be fun.

Do you remember the big display tank they had in the middle of the store ? It was what, 1100 gallons ? There were four large scats in that tank when the store burned down. They were 6 or 7 inches each. I successfully weaned them from brackish to full salt over a 1 year period, then gave them to Terry's when I went full blown salt. I used to go visit them and I was very proud. I was devastated when the store went up in flames.

I've done the same thing with Mono's, but they naturally move to salter water as they mature. I didn't know scats could survive in full salt water until I saw it for myself. :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11821741#post11821741 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
These are the calcium numbers I came up with bumping each mix to 35 ppt. I'll also show what I got in my own testing. I'll do magnesium tommorrow.

Instant Ocean
AWT - 432 - they actually got two very different readings from 2 different buckets.
My test - 350

Reef Crystals
AWT - 385
My test 420 (I think they got a couple of the bad batches going around lately.)

Coralife
AWT - 528
My test - 560

Kent
AWT - 500
My test - 540

Red Sea Coral Pro
AWT - 420
My Test - 490

Crystal Sea Marine Mix
AWT - 316
Did not test

Crystal Sea Bioassay
AWT - 336
Did not test

Marine Environment
AWT - 660
Did not test

Tropic Marin
AWT - 309
My test - 375

TM Pro Reef
AWT - 380
My test - 450

Oceanic
AWT - 531
My Test 580

Seachem Marine
AWT - 535
My test - 500

Seachem Reef
AWT - 548
My test - 540

I also tested Red Sea regular which came in at 400, Oceanpure came in at 510 and Aquatic Gardens was 430.
Click to expand...

Your numbers billy seem way to high to me on these brands.

Carlo
 
I am,however,still concerned about toxic buildup from aluminum, lead copper,bromine etc .which significantly exceed nsw levels in most if not all mixes. Is it enough to rely on activated carbon and polypad for detoxification or are there other methods I may be missing? Or does all of this fall into the "nobody knows" except the urchins category?


I don't think that salt mixes contribute to a "buildup" of such things, but they certainly do provide a base starting point. Any time you do a water change, you take out water that you replace with the new salt water, so it is a swap rather than a buildup.

As an example, take copper in my tank. When I carefully tested the Instant Ocean that I use and my tank water, I found less copper in the Instant Ocean than in my tank. Consequently, and despite however much someone might want to blame metals in salt mixes for problems, the more water changes I would do with Instant Ocean, the lower the copper level in my tank would get.

The underlying reason is that these impurities in the tank come from other additions (foods, chemical supplements, etc) and those are not swaps. Water changes are swaps, so I am not as concerned about buildup with respect to impurities in salt mixes.

That said, I would like the starting salt mix to match NSW as well as possible. :)
 
wow that's a shame, i don't remember the scats but that sounds dissappointing.

I agree with testing the first batch, i just don't WANT to. But most who already do probably always will, like you said Billy for peace of mind. I personally hate testing partly because i haven't found any test kits i particularily trust. I am relatively new and haven't tried to many yet. I also don't test the first batch of salt, but I'm pretty meticulous and hearing that i should be, I prolly now will...dangit!
 
Randy, Thanks again. I hadn't thought about the swap out with water changes. I thought the metals stayed in there , in the rock and substrate. Your explaination makes perfect sense and eases that bit of anxiety.
 
There theoretically might be some on the rocks and substrate, but at least in my case with copper, a water change reduces the overall burden.

You're welcome. :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11853408#post11853408 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cayars
Your numbers billy seem way to high to me on these brands.

Carlo
Click to expand...

Remember, I mixed these to 1.0264 (35 ppt) :)
 
Whenever I buy a new bucket of salt, I always shuffle it back and forth between 3 buckets to get it thoroughly mixed. I make 10 gallons a week and the numbers are always consistent from the start to the finish of the bucket.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11856004#post11856004 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
Maybe he is referring to the incorrectly bumped AWT numbers looking too high, which they are. :)
Click to expand...

:lol:

Yes, I did that before I found out they already increased the salinity for that test.

Unfortunately, I can't make it go away. I don't have the magic key. :D

I guess I could just say I screwed up. The numbers I posted in that post are wrong as I misunderstood AWT's testing process.

:(
 
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