Salt Water Mixing Stations Let's See Them

That is one nice station
I'm inclined to +1 due to the simplicity of that station. I love it. Nothing that is not essential, with everything that is. However...

That is the "one pure RO/DI container, one Mixing/Salt storage container" type of station. And unless I'm missing something about how they would be used, they create a bit of a PITA.

The easiest way to make new saltwater is by mixing a fixed (repeatable amount) of salt into a fixed volume of RO/DI for a predictable salinity. It eliminates the crazy, mix-then-check-salinity, then mix-some-more, repeat... type cycles. In this type of station configuration it would appear that the primary way to do that is to use ALL the saltwater in the Mixing/Salt-storage container so you can fill it completely with RO/DI.



And if you do that (drain it completely) that begs a few questions...
  1. Was there enough saltwater for the W/C by the time you got to the bottom of that SW container, or did you need more?
  2. Are you comfortable with the fact that you need to make more saltwater right now, or accept that you have none for emergencies?
  3. If you didn't empty the saltwater container, but have decided to make more, are you comfortable with the additional time/effort/inconsistency of the required mix-test-repeat method?
If I'm mistaken, or otherwise missing something, please let me know. While I love the simplicity of the "one pure RO/DI container, one Mixing/Salt storage container" type of station, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with all the implications.
 
After posting, I realized I might need to clarify a bit...

When making a two-container mixing station, you've got one container that RO/DI will be filling, and one that will be used to dispense saltwater. And a decision has to be made about which of those two will be used to mix salt water. From the RO/DI line going into the left container, and the mixing loop on the right container, it appears Marlando decided to do the mixing in the saltwater dispensing container. I posted my concerns about that method in my prior post. It has the advantage of having a good deal of pure RO/DI available most of the time. But do we really need that?

I would think that always having premixed saltwater - for emergencies - is more important. And that means doing the mixing in the same container that you fill with RO/DI.

In which case, the saltwater dispensing container should always have saltwater. For even when you empty it, the RO/DI-Mixing container should be full of pre-mixed saltwater, ready to be moved over to the saltwater dispensing container. And naturally when you do that, you have until the saltwater dispensing container is empty to refill the other with RO/DI and mix a new batch of saltwater. And if you begin that work as soon as you transfer mixed salt water from one container to the next, all of time you will have at least one full container of mixed saltwater available for emergencies, but usually much more.

The downside of doing it that way, is not having RO/DI available all the time. Which means - if you are doing ATO - that you have some other RO/DI reservoir somewhere for that. Seems a small price for always having lots of saltwater available.

If I'm missing something folks, please let me know. Thanks. :)
 
I'm in the process of building a continuous salt water changing system...in this case I felt I needed 2 containers as I will need a continuous supply of fresh (ATO) and salt water. I'll post some pics as I complete the build. My tank/sump is approximately 95 gallons and I will be changing about 2 gallons per day. I have 2 40 gallon tanks. To mix/circulate I will be using a Pan World 40PX and to change the water I'll be using a Stenner 170gpd dual head dosing pump.

One question I have for the group is should I be concerned about keeping my SW mix for several weeks in my storage tank? It will be circulated and covered.
 
My ato goes through 5 gallons of ro\di ~ 2 days thats just for my main DT ..... I keep 55 gallons on hand....
 
I'm in the process of building a continuous salt water changing system...in this case I felt I needed 2 containers as I will need a continuous supply of fresh (ATO) and salt water. I'll post some pics as I complete the build. My tank/sump is approximately 95 gallons and I will be changing about 2 gallons per day. I have 2 40 gallon tanks. To mix/circulate I will be using a Pan World 40PX and to change the water I'll be using a Stenner 170gpd dual head dosing pump.

One question I have for the group is should I be concerned about keeping my SW mix for several weeks in my storage tank? It will be circulated and covered.

Red Sea Coral Pro says not to mix for more than 4 hours or it will start to precipitate. I'm assuming this would apply for all reef salts.
 
What is the purpose of the vertical components with the long horizontal pipe run? I also noticed you did a collection trap (the u part) like under a sink. Curious what the thinking is here? Not questioning design. I will be doing one soon, and would appreciate any tips and suggestions for why things were done that way. Thanks!:D

Those are there for water changes. Easy to just get out the hose and siphon and then let it empty into either of the three drain lines. No U trap, not sure what you are referring too.
 
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That was my train of thought...until I noticed a thick brown layer of crud (alk) along the bottom and sides of the container after one mix. It's okay for reg salt but not reef. I guess this is why the directions for red sea vs red sea pro are different.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2288681

Ill be recirculating the water and it will be covered, so i'm not getting why this would be a problem...I'll need to read on...if storing large quantities of SW is a problem then that blows my CWCS idea away....
 
I guess I posted earlier in the thread when I had two 50 Gallon barrels in a Rubbermaid shed.


Here is my current setup. I upgraded to a much larger shed with two 100 gallon tanks about 2 years ago. One is for RODI and one is for Salt water. The pump you see turns on every 3 hours and runs for 15 minutes to keep the salt water from stagnating. Automatic water changes are performed by a litermeter 3 but I am switching to a Genesis Renew and will use my Apex as the failsafe.

The shed backs up to the house and is plumbed through the exterior wall into the sump below the tank. ATO is utilizes a dosing pump drawing directly from the 100 gallon RODI tank and controlled via my Apex. The shed has an EB8 in connecting to the Apex as well.
RODI tank is on the left and salt tank on the right.
DSC01266.jpg


DSC01268.jpg


The garage door button you see is connected to the Apex. When I mix salt or transfer RODI to the salt tank, I push the button which triggers my Apex to turn the pump on for an hour.
Mix-pump-switch.jpg


RODI filling is also automatic and handled by my SpectraPure UHE 100GPD unit.
Mix-pump-switch1.jpg


More on this can be found in my build thread here.
 
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slief:
I'm thinking of getting the Genesis Renew as well, can you please make a build thread or detail feed back on this system when you set it up.

Thanks
KS
 
slief:
I'm thinking of getting the Genesis Renew as well, can you please make a build thread or detail feed back on this system when you set it up.

Thanks
KS

I will be including it in my build thread and plan on reviewing it there. I might also put something up in the Lighting & Filtration Section here as well but I should at the very least have something up in my build thread by next weekend assuming I get it installed by then. I drilled the new hole and ran a 1.5" PVC pipe the house and into the shed yesterday so I am halfway there. That pipe will be used to route the Renew hoses to and from the sump from the shed. I'd estimate that part of the work will have been the most difficult part of the install as it is an absolute nightmare drilling large holes like that through 1" of stucco and then plywood using a hole saw designed for wood. The rest of the install should be a cakewalk other than drilling another bulk head hole or two in my sump.
 
I will be including it in my build thread and plan on reviewing it there. I might also put something up in the Lighting & Filtration Section here as well but I should at the very least have something up in my build thread by next weekend assuming I get it installed by then. I drilled the new hole and ran a 1.5" PVC pipe the house and into the shed yesterday so I am halfway there. That pipe will be used to route the Renew hoses to and from the sump from the shed. I'd estimate that part of the work will have been the most difficult part of the install as it is an absolute nightmare drilling large holes like that through 1" of stucco and then plywood using a hole saw designed for wood. The rest of the install should be a cakewalk other than drilling another bulk head hole or two in my sump.

You mean with all your skills, you couldn't make your own water change system? I love the shed idea, I wish i could pull that off in canada. It would freeze all my water. I also love the intuition of the garage door button to send a bit to the apex then turning on your pump for an hour.

You see you have already done that much. to re-create the genesis principals is just another pump and plumbing. I know because I built my own water change reactor using the same principals and utilizing my neptune AC3 as the back bone.
 
You mean with all your skills, you couldn't make your own water change system? I love the shed idea, I wish i could pull that off in canada. It would freeze all my water. I also love the intuition of the garage door button to send a bit to the apex then turning on your pump for an hour.

You see you have already done that much. to re-create the genesis principals is just another pump and plumbing. I know because I built my own water change reactor using the same principals and utilizing my neptune AC3 as the back bone.

lol.. Funny you mentioned that. A couple weeks ago I designed a couple wall mounted 1 gallon acrylic metering bins and had it it my mind to have my acrylic shop build them with the plan of using them with my Apex. It's really a two pump/two bin solution as you need to take in/out exactly the same amounts.

I also laid out a 2 gallon bin for larger water changes. They both incorperated a PVC stand pipe that could be shortened which is essentially a loopback/oveflow line sending the water back to its source once it reached a specified level of 1 gallon or 2 gallons.. This insures that the bins are perfectly full with 1 gallon of water. In the case of the 1 gallon version, it could be setup for half gallon exchanges by using a shorter standpipe. The cost was such that it would be a marketable solution which is not off the table.

That said, while I've become pretty good at my Apex programming, the automatic water change code is a bit daunting and complex as there were things that needed to be timed such as the solenoid that opens when the bin is full. There are float switches also included in the design to shut the pumps off when the bins were full but also need the pumps to run on a timer so that if the float fails, the pump will still shut off at a preset duration and not run continuously. Then my ATO coding would need to be changed which could simply be a defer statement to delay it long enough for the exchange to complete and allowing my ATO float to go back to closed position. Last there was the frequency of the water changes which could have been handled by OSC commands telling it to turn on 1, 2, 3 times a day for 1-3 gallons. Then there are the failsafes such as sump levels, salinity etc. All of which together entail some pretty lengthy lines of code.

I actually posted a thread on it at the Neptune Systems hosted forum explaining what I was looking to do and seeking help but suprisingly did not get a response on that. While I still will likely presue a Apex driven solution, using the Genesis as a stand alone device and using my Apex for the failsafe seemed like a more prudent and easy to impement solution. I will plug the Genesis into an Apex controlled outlet that will have failsafe programming for sump levels and salinity so that if my water levels are too high or too low, the Genesis shuts off. Same goes with Salinity, too high or too low and Genesis shuts off. These would be the same lines of code I use for my Litermeter water exchange outlet which would make implementing the Genesis the path of least resistance and very simple.

My metering bins would have saved me money but I do have the Litermeter along with 3 or 4 spare pumps to essentially make it close to an even trade. The added benifit is having an all in one device that is not dependant on my Apex along with having the failsafes that the Apex will provide.

As I said, I still may have those acrylic bins made and may switch down the line but sometimes simplicity wins over cost and in this case, the Renew keeps things simple and saves me hours of programming while making it very easy to changes the amount of water I change and the frequency at which they are done, be it daily, weekly or even a large concurrent water change.
 
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I actually posted a thread on it at the Neptune Systems hosted forum explaining what I was looking to do and seeking help but suprisingly did not get a response on that.
Where might that thread be? Curious about the lack of support on the Neptune forum, I did a search on all your threads posted there, and cannot find one with no response. In fact - quite the opposite - your threads there generally have a large number of replies.
 
Where might that thread be? Curious about the lack of support on the Neptune forum, I did a search on all your threads posted there, and cannot find one with no response. In fact - quite the opposite - your threads there generally have a large number of replies.

Neptune support is and always has been second to none in my experience and the forum support is no exception. I've been a Neptune customer since the first generation Aquacontroller some 15 years ago I think and have always found Curt and the team at Neptune to be one of the best when it comes to support.

That said, I didn't post this in the RC Neptune forum though I probably should have as well, it was at the neptunesystems.com support forum. I figure the reason I didn't get a reply was because I didn't actually have outlets setup or programming, let alone anything to troubleshoot. It was more of a fishing expedition explaining the concept and most of the details. If I had gotten far enough, I'm sure I would have gotten help in a hurry. Instead, the thread I created more than likely came off as wanting to get somebody to create the program for me. I wrote the thread in the midst of kind of a brain storm.

Here is a link to thread.
http://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...ution-for-the-Apex-Need-help-with-programming
 
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My apologies! I mistakenly took your post to indicate the Neptune forum here. Sorry about that! And yes, the support there is generally excellent. I cannot speak for the new Neptune hosted forum though. No experience with that. Thanks for the link. Will go take a look at the problem, not that I'm any expert with Apex coding...
 
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