Salt water vanished

[edelarosax729]

Hello,

I've had a saltwater tank for about 5 months now. We let the tank cycle checked that the water levels were okay before we introduced fish. We had a naso tang, a yellow tang, a sailfin tang, a clown fish and 2 other which i dont recall their name. Suddenly, my naso tang was having black dots which then made him very weak and eventually killed it. The same thing happened to all the fish in the tank. Eventually my entire tank is wiped out from fish. I am scared to add any fish because clearly whatever the tank has going on it's going to kill anything I introduce to it.

Has anyone ever experienced any of this. Please help, i miss looking at my tank with fish swimming around.

 

[gone fishin]

From the info given look up black spot disease or black ich, both are the same thing. Just out of curiosity what is your tank size and setup?

 

[edelarosax729]

I have a 75 gallon tank. I looked it up it says it's a worm who goes from host to host and ruptures after 6 days forming little young worms in the tank.

 

[A.Astore]

Prepare for the your tank is WAY too small storm for the fish you mentioned.

That being said, if the suggested issue sounds as though it is in fact what your fish had I would strongly suggest reading up on how long you need to leave your tank fallow prior to purchasing anything else. Also, did you QT any of the fish? If not, it is another way to avoid having a whole tank population wiped with little time to catch it. Lastly, prior to buying any new fish, take the time to research yourself as well as ask questions on here as to if something is suitable for your tank size. There is a good reason there are tank minimums for certain fish and they truly should be followed, especially one like the sailfin and naso.

People are more than happy to help with stocking lists and you should take the time to make a complete dream sheet for stocking so you know which to introduce first. Obviously that doesn't fix what seems to be black ich; however, it is something to consider now that you are at the start line again.

 

[edelarosax729]

Before we purchased any fish, we would ask the people at pet goods. For every fish that i purchased they told us it was fine to have in a 75 gallon tank and have all of them together. We go based on what they tell us since we recently just started. But I will keep this in mind now that I'll eventually have to start all over.

Thank you.

 

[gone fishin]

I have a 75 gallon tank. I looked it up it says it's a worm who goes from host to host and ruptures after 6 days forming little young worms in the tank.

Yes it is a parasitic worm. I have not had to deal with this. Since all your fish are dead what you need to find out is how long the worms can survive without a fish host. I would suggest posting in the fish disease forum and hopefully you can get some specific answers to that question.

I also agree that your tank was to small for some of those fish. I would also urge you to look into learning how to Quarantine (QT) fish. There is a good chance that if you had QT your fish then you would have caught this and all your fish would not have died. Just my 2 cents good luck.

 

[gone fishin]

Before we purchased any fish, we would ask the people at pet goods. For every fish that i purchased they told us it was fine to have in a 75 gallon tank and have all of them together. We go based on what they tell us since we recently just started. But I will keep this in mind now that I'll eventually have to start all over.

Thank you.

Keep in mind the store is there to make money and some will tell you anything to make a sale. The store gave you some bad advice either intentionally, to make a sale or unintentionally, they don't know anything. Before purchasing more fish check the forum first. we are not here to make any money off of you.

 

[gone fishin]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1946007


The link is a list of recommended tank sizes for tangs. It is found at the top of the forum in the "Setting up" sticky at the top of the forum. The sticky is full of useful info

 

[edelarosax729]

Yes it is a parasitic worm. I have not had to deal with this. Since all your fish are dead what you need to find out is how long the worms can survive without a fish host. I would suggest posting in the fish disease forum and hopefully you can get some specific answers to that question.

I also agree that your tank was to small for some of those fish. I would also urge you to look into learning how to Quarantine (QT) fish. There is a good chance that if you had QT your fish then you would have caught this and all your fish would not have died. Just my 2 cents good luck.

In order to add new fish they told us to put all the fish we purchased in a bucket with the water from the bag they were in and use a Clear Flexible Vinyl Tubing tied so that little drops of water from our tank falls to the bucket. Is this what you mean by QT?

I'm sorry, just learning here. We learn from our mistakes and this time I want to make sure I'm taking the right approach so I won't be put in this situation agian.

 

[edelarosax729]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1946007


The link is a list of recommended tank sizes for tangs. It is found at the top of the forum in the "Setting up" sticky at the top of the forum. The sticky is full of useful info

I will definitely check into that right now.

Thanks so much !!

 

[gone fishin]

In order to add new fish they told us to put all the fish we purchased in a bucket with the water from the bag they were in and use a Clear Flexible Vinyl Tubing tied so that little drops of water from our tank falls to the bucket. Is this what you mean by QT?

I'm sorry, just learning here. We learn from our mistakes and this time I want to make sure I'm taking the right approach so I won't be put in this situation agian.

No, What your referring to is called acclimation. It is a process to adjust the bag water conditions to your display tank (DT) conditions. For example getting the tamp and salinity to match.

A QT in a nutshell, is a separate tank that one puts their fish in when you purchase them. They stay there for a period of time I like to keep them there for 4-5 weeks. This gives you time to look for diseases, get the fish eating, use to your lighting schedule. There is more involved to QT and other possible steps as well. The tank is a barebones and in most cases a smaller tank than the DT, My QT is a 29g. Other than it being sad to lose fish it can get quite expensive pretty quick. If you are interested look at the setting up sticky there is a whole section about QT and ask questions on anything you don't get.

 

[Nina51]

you can also do some research at liveaquaria.com. when you see a fish you think you want, look it up there and it will give you recommended tank size and whether or not it's a "beginner" fish, etc.

sorry for your problems but these are common mistakes so don't get discouraged. research, research, research!!

 

[edelarosax729]

No, What your referring to is called acclimation. It is a process to adjust the bag water conditions to your display tank (DT) conditions. For example getting the tamp and salinity to match.

A QT in a nutshell, is a separate tank that one puts their fish in when you purchase them. They stay there for a period of time I like to keep them there for 4-5 weeks. This gives you time to look for diseases, get the fish eating, use to your lighting schedule. There is more involved to QT and other possible steps as well. The tank is a barebones and in most cases a smaller tank than the DT, My QT is a 29g. Other than it being sad to lose fish it can get quite expensive pretty quick. If you are interested look at the setting up sticky there is a whole section about QT and ask questions on anything you don't get.

So for a 75 gallon tank a 20 tank QT will be suffice? & I did not follow these steps. As for my DT should i empty it out and clean it and start over? What about the live rocks do you know if the parasite sticks to the rocks? I know soap can't be used because the residue will kill the fish. And how long should i leave the tank fish free?

As for introducing new fish, anything that requires more than 75 gallons can't be in my tank, no matter what the poeple at the fish place tell me?
& Yes about the pricing I know my naso tang alone was 80$ :sad2:

 

[thelawnwrangler]

So for a 75 gallon tank a 20 tank QT will be suffice? & I did not follow these steps. As for my DT should i empty it out and clean it and start over? What about the live rocks do you know if the parasite sticks to the rocks? I know soap can't be used because the residue will kill the fish. And how long should i leave the tank fish free?

As for introducing new fish, anything that requires more than 75 gallons can't be in my tank, no matter what the poeple at the fish place tell me?
& Yes about the pricing I know my naso tang alone was 80$ :sad2:

Confirm with diease board, but if you are willing to leave your tank fallow(no fish) for whatever time period they suggest you should be able to save your expensive liverock.

If you plan to QT the fallow time might line up well with how long it takes to get QT and QT time of new fish.

Might want to consider introducing fewer fish at 1 time too.

Goodluck and thanks for sharing your experience your experience might help someone else.

 

[BlackTip]

I am sorry to tell you that you jumped into this hobby without the proper education and knowledge. Please buy a book or two and educate yourself, before you buy any more livestock.

 

[gone fishin]

So for a 75 gallon tank a 20 tank QT will be suffice? & I did not follow these steps. As for my DT should i empty it out and clean it and start over? What about the live rocks do you know if the parasite sticks to the rocks? I know soap can't be used because the residue will kill the fish. And how long should i leave the tank fish free?

As for introducing new fish, anything that requires more than 75 gallons can't be in my tank, no matter what the poeple at the fish place tell me?
& Yes about the pricing I know my naso tang alone was 80$ :sad2:

IMO a 20g would suffice for a QT, assuming QT one or possibly two fish depending on size. Yes 75g is the limit no matter what the LFS says, assuming no special dietary needs and aggression. Stocking a tank is as much an art as it science.

FWIW my personal QT protocol is initially I perform the Tank Transfer Method (TTM) on all new fish for ich, this process last 12 days. The fish then goes into my main QT for 4-5 weeks, depends on work schedule. While in the main QT the fish get a chance to recover from their trip from being caught to your house, get used to prepared foods, look for other diseases and parasites. Also at some time during the process I will treat the fish with 2 rounds of Prazipro for flukes and internal parasites. I would assume for the cost of these fish you could set up a QT and TTM setup with money left over.

I have done some quick searches on black ich/ black spot. Not much out there so far. I did see some info about using prazipro to treat. Prazi is one of the few medicines that can be used in a DT. I believe it would kill the worms in the DT. Hopefully you can get some verification from the fish disease gurus.

 

[edelarosax729]

I am sorry to tell you that you jumped into this hobby without the proper education and knowledge. Please buy a book or two and educate yourself, before you buy any more livestock.

Not really, we had fresh water fish for a long time and they were healthy nothing ever happened. We just decided to switch because saltwater has better looking fish.

& i'm not here to argue I'm here to learn. If not I would'nt be here asking questions.

Thank you for your input anyway.

 

[A.Astore]

IMO a 20g would suffice for a QT, assuming QT one or possibly two fish depending on size. Yes 75g is the limit no matter what the LFS says, assuming no special dietary needs and aggression. Stocking a tank is as much an art as it science.

FWIW my personal QT protocol is initially I perform the Tank Transfer Method (TTM) on all new fish for ich, this process last 12 days. The fish then goes into my main QT for 4-5 weeks, depends on work schedule. While in the main QT the fish get a chance to recover from their trip from being caught to your house, get used to prepared foods, look for other diseases and parasites. Also at some time during the process I will treat the fish with 2 rounds of Prazipro for flukes and internal parasites. I would assume for the cost of these fish you could set up a QT and TTM setup with money left over.

I have done some quick searches on black ich/ black spot. Not much out there so far. I did see some info about using prazipro to treat. Prazi is one of the few medicines that can be used in a DT. I believe it would kill the worms in the DT. Hopefully you can get some verification from the fish disease gurus.

I was looking for info on Black ich too and came up far short of answers other than Sk8tr mentioned Prazi says it treats it too. Hard to believe so little info on it. I agree with the see if you can get some finite info from the disease forum as to how long to leave the display without fish as well as if it is a smart choice to treat with Prazi in the tank. They might tell you it has a very short cycle though without fish being present.

What gone fishin mentioned is a pretty sound way of getting your tank running without these types of issues popping up on you again. If you are going to go the tank transfer method approach running 10 gallon tanks can help reduce the amount of water you need to do the transfers and then you could use a larger one if you want once the fish is through the TTM. Getting the equipment though is not that expensive and Amazon has heaters and air pumps or power heads for extremely cheap if you have Prime. I would suggest taking the time to read through the Tank Transfer sticky and consider it. If you decide you want to go with one Qt approach then just make sure you take the time to figure out what the best way is to do that in terms of medicating etc. There are a lot of fish that will come in with something due to handling and being placing in holding systems with many other fish but as long as you do as you sound you are going to from here on out you should be fine.

One last thing because you mentioned it, a lot of people will use the you can have it when it is small and then rehome it for fish that need more tank. This is not a good approach and should be avoided. You will be much happier if you find the fish that will be able to stay in your system rather than constantly questioning when it is time to go through the headache of rehoming. Sorry you had to go through this but glad to see you are using it as a learning experience and actually listening to suggestions.

 

[Sk8r]

There's a file up top of the forum called SETTING UP, the one with the red arrow. That will give you some good info and help you set up safely. Marine fish are not uncommonly accompanied by parasites: the qt process gets rid of those. And keeping the tank chemistry in balance is not hard, but it requires some tests. Always check the adult size of the fish you are looking at. In the case of the naso tang, that's up to one foot six inches, and they grow fast, as within a year or two.

 

[gone fishin]

One last thing because you mentioned it, a lot of people will use the you can have it when it is small and then rehome it for fish that need more tank. This is not a good approach and should be avoided. You will be much happier if you find the fish that will be able to stay in your system rather than constantly questioning when it is time to go through the headache of rehoming. Sorry you had to go through this but glad to see you are using it as a learning experience and actually listening to suggestions.

This times a 1000. A motto that has served me well over time. Buy fish for the size tank you have now not in the future. Stuff happens and life gets in the way of future upgrades. 99% of the fish folks have are fairly common and are not hard to get when and if there is a tank upgrade.

There is a reason LFS sell smaller versions of large fish. There are significantly more smaller tanks than larger tanks. Folks are more apt to buy a 3 inch naso tang than a fully grown 18 inch naso.