Salty thumbs. Why do some people have an easier time than others?

[Bent]

I've been thinking about starting this discussion for some time now, since it's something I've often wondered about.

Why, do some people seem to have what I call a "salty thumb"? In other words, like a green thumb, it seems some people can do some reading, start a tank and grow acro like mad, and others can read and be active in the community for years and be lucky to keep some softies alive or have bad luck with equipment failures etc. These people have the knowledge, but it seems like their tanks just can't compare to people with the "salty thumb".

So, while we probably won't figure out the difference, it would be fun to discuss what makes one person be apt to be successful, or have that "salty thumb".

Personally, I think it has to do sometimes with overthinking things.

 

[gone fishin]

I thought overthinking things when I saw the title. I also wonder how much the "freak out effect" comes into play. See something a little off and throw a whole arsenal of "remedies" at the issue.

 

[leviburns89]

I've been wondering the same thing.

Most reefers would consider Euphylia an easy beginner coral. But I can't for the life of me make it happy.

But at the same time, I successfully keep zoas, shrooms, chalices, brains, anemones, fish, inverts...

It's maddening why this one species just won't work for me, and a guy right down the road from me has some the size of a basketball, all same water params, and maintenance schedule

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[mandarin_goby]

I always wonder if it's a magical combination of type of tank, type of skimmer/lights/sump, mixture of fish etc. I felt like my 57 rimless hit a wall, something about the Lifereef overflow, Sicce pump, MP10s just wasn't *working*, so now with a new 75 and some new equipment, maybe I'll get over the hump.

For a while, I couldn't keep zoas alive, they'd always melt, but now I have a zoa covered rock I bought at a swap that seems to be flourishing. Then again, in the old tank, galaxea used to thrive and now I can't keep it alive. It's bizarre and frustrating.

There was a time when my corals were dying (GFO leaking into the display) but the fish were happier than ever - I'd like to find that balance between thriving corals and fish.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I think water quality is the most overlooked aspect in the hobby. I'm talking about incoming water quality. I've seen so many have all the tech in the world on their systems and still can't keep anything alive long term because they just don't keep up with incoming water quality.

RO/DI units just don't tell the complete story on what is coming out of them. When to replace cartridges is hit and miss unless you test the water coming out of the unit on a regular basis.

 

[billdogg]

I thought overthinking things when I saw the title. I also wonder how much the "freak out effect" comes into play. See something a little off and throw a whole arsenal of "remedies" at the issue.

Exactly my thought as well.

 

[leviburns89]

Exactly my thought as well.

In my particular case, I never freak out and add stuff. Also, my water from the tap is very clean, and I run it thru an rodi after that.

I was always taught that pretty much every imbalance within the water can only be solved thru water changes.

Yet I am on my 3rd euphylia over that past year, and the results are far from admirable. But my porites, and chalice, and duncans, and monti grow to no end.

Maybe I just got 3 unlucky euphylia, who knows.

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[Grkgod36]

I think it's tank setup. As much biological filtration as possible ,biggest sump and fuge possible . A normal sand bed as much live rock as possible .and a kick but skimmer.

All that keeps your water clean .

Proper water flow in the tank and a nice set of LEDs

 

[BigBlueTang]

I thought overthinking things when I saw the title. I also wonder how much the "freak out effect" comes into play. See something a little off and throw a whole arsenal of "remedies" at the issue.

I completely agree. I'm still a newbie, but my first couple fish, if I saw that they weren't swimming, or simply didn't even see the food, I would do a massive water change and be extremely worried if they were okay..

With my current fish, my Gramma goes missing for days at a time, same with my YWG.. They always show up eventually, and have stopped doing it recently, and learned to associate me with food

 

[Flippers4pups]

The "freak out effect" is a big one with new hobbyists.

Getting off center of the basics, lack of consistency in husbandry, over reacting by quickly trying to adjust to the perceived problem leads to more problems.

Yep.

 

[BrianKC]

It's hard, but I found that the more I keep my hands out of the tank, the better things do. I don't mean my hands are polluting the tank, but that things don't like getting moved around all the time and fiddled with.


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[leviburns89]

It's hard, but I found that the more I keep my hands out of the tank, the better things do. I don't mean my hands are polluting the tank, but that things don't like getting moved around all the time and fiddled with.


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+1

Stability is key. These creatures live a long time in one spot, so moving them doesn't help unless it's an absolute necessity

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[Reef Frog]

Too Much in One Box of Water?

Too Much in One Box of Water?

Good question but a very complicated one. Many many facets to explore.

One idea is that some folks try "too many things" in a small box of water. Limited resources come into play. Also the choices we make, consciously or unconsciously together with our unique mix of corals often seems to predetermine an outcome.

The classic case would be mixing sometimes toxic softies with sensitive hard corals. Hard to do long term IMO&E. Or trying to keep NPS filter feeders in a hard coral tank where the required feeding causes water quality issues that imperils the hard corals. Or mistakes with fish & mobile inverts.

My first two years or so I tried too many things at once. I had very rich water where zoas, palys, ricordea, some NPS, exotic mushrooms grew like crazy. But it drove an algae invasion. So I went to war with draconian nutrient export as my method of choice. I cleaned up the tank to the extent I could now keep virtually all hard corals (excepting the occasional flub & difficulties w/ acropia). But now I couldn't keep the polyps noted above. They disappeared into the ether. Even my blue clove polyps went away! But the hard corals flourished but growth seemed to slow a bit, but that's OK. I now had the hard coral mixed reed I really wanted.

Now, everything is focused in maintenance, consistency & nutrient export; lighting type, intensity & spectrum, flow, big 3 minerals, wet skimming GFO, carbon & much more. So I now seem doomed to failure with softies & polyps, fan worms, the ability to grow the swarms of copepods needed to keep a dragonette, etc. Thats the trade off I made.

So I think focusing on a preselected group of animals with similar or at least compatible needs is a good idea. Think a stocking plan as a coherent ecosystem instead of a random list of animals that catch your eye. Don't try to duplicate the enormous diversity of habitats & species in a single box of water. And this is your justification to start that second aquarium you've always wanted.....

 

[homer1475]

I think we have hit on a couple things here.

The freak out effect, typically newbies freak out over the littlest things and 99% of the posts in this section prove it. Freak out and add some chemical to the tank, always a bad decision.

Leaving things alone, quite a few people just can't leave their hands out of their tanks. Their constantly moving a coral because "today it doesn't look happy, but for the last 3 weeks its been fine". Corals have bad days too, and don't like to puff up like usual. This typically leads back to the freak out effect, and starts a vicious cycle.

Adding things(chemicals) to a tank because someone suggested it without testing for it. We have seen it more and more lately with the addition of PH buffer, and to a lesser extent bacteria in a bottle. Nothing can speed up nature, sure you MAY be able to shorten the time by a little, but typically your still waiting, and humans by nature, hate to wait.


This is a long term hobby. Slow and steady wins the race in the end. We live in an instant society, everyone wants everything right now, and won't wait for it to happen naturally.

 

[Bent]

Good question but a very complicated one. Many many facets to explore.

One idea is that some folks try "too many things" in a small box of water. Limited resources come into play. Also the choices we make, consciously or unconsciously together with our unique mix of corals often seems to predetermine an outcome.

The classic case would be mixing sometimes toxic softies with sensitive hard corals. Hard to do long term IMO&E. Or trying to keep NPS filter feeders in a hard coral tank where the required feeding causes water quality issues that imperils the hard corals. Or mistakes with fish & mobile inverts.

My first two years or so I tried too many things at once. I had very rich water where zoas, palys, ricordea, some NPS, exotic mushrooms grew like crazy. But it drove an algae invasion. So I went to war with draconian nutrient export as my method of choice. I cleaned up the tank to the extent I could now keep virtually all hard corals (excepting the occasional flub & difficulties w/ acropia). But now I couldn't keep the polyps noted above. They disappeared into the ether. Even my blue clove polyps went away! But the hard corals flourished but growth seemed to slow a bit, but that's OK. I now had the hard coral mixed reed I really wanted.

Now, everything is focused in maintenance, consistency & nutrient export; lighting type, intensity & spectrum, flow, big 3 minerals, wet skimming GFO, carbon & much more. So I now seem doomed to failure with softies & polyps, fan worms, the ability to grow the swarms of copepods needed to keep a dragonette, etc. Thats the trade off I made.

So I think focusing on a preselected group of animals with similar or at least compatible needs is a good idea. Think a stocking plan as a coherent ecosystem instead of a random list of animals that catch your eye. Don't try to duplicate the enormous diversity of habitats & species in a single box of water. And this is your justification to start that second aquarium you've always wanted.....

This is a good point.

I'm to the point that I'm going to be ditching my softies.

 

[leviburns89]

Lol don't ditch them, send em to me!

I have had battles with flatworms and voracious amphipods, had to introduce predators, and flatworm exit.

I think the key element here is,

"We are trying to keep a reef" well then, what is is a reef, pretty much everything...

Trying to keep a monoculture never works in nature. You need balance. For every scavenger or cuc member, there needs to be an equal threat to its existence.

This is how reefs actually survive, constant battle.


And I also think about this.. what happens when a turtle, or skate blows thru a colony of corals. It might only happen a couple times a year, but when it does, the corals close up, and stay closed until all possibilities of a threat are gone.

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[cloak]

Are y'all good at any sports? (same thing)

 

[Bent]

Are y'all good at any sports? (same thing)

I was decent as basketball and football as a kid. But I haven't played either in decades. Im sure any shot I tried to take would be cringeworthy at this point.

 

[jstack]

I've been thinking about starting this discussion for some time now, since it's something I've often wondered about.

Why, do some people seem to have what I call a "salty thumb"? In other words, like a green thumb, it seems some people can do some reading, start a tank and grow acro like mad, and others can read and be active in the community for years and be lucky to keep some softies alive or have bad luck with equipment failures etc. These people have the knowledge, but it seems like their tanks just can't compare to people with the "salty thumb".

So, while we probably won't figure out the difference, it would be fun to discuss what makes one person be apt to be successful, or have that "salty thumb".

Personally, I think it has to do sometimes with overthinking things.

right I started my tank 4 months ago, fresh to this hobby and some people tanks looks like they just don't have a clue.

 

[leviburns89]

Are y'all good at any sports? (same thing)

Went to state twice in football.

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