Scandinavian / Japanese Style Reef Tank

[Newbie Aquarist]

You gotta watch out for the beautiful pieces. I had a piece in my tank and while I couldn't sleep I went to look at my tank and it was stinging both neighboring corals. So yes I had to find it a new residency also. Best of luck on your recovery. Enjoy the vacation.

 

[cbitsiaras]

You gotta watch out for the beautiful pieces. I had a piece in my tank and while I couldn't sleep I went to look at my tank and it was stinging both neighboring corals. So yes I had to find it a new residency also. Best of luck on your recovery. Enjoy the vacation.

Thank you for your wishes my friend.

It is indeed incredible what one can find out during night time patrol in the tank
:fun5:

All the best,

Dino

 

[cbitsiaras]

Recovery update

Recovery update

Hello everyone from sunny Copenhagen (finally!)

This is an update on the progress of the "rehabilitation" of our tank:

A few historic facts:
- 10 December 2012: We set up the tank with matured water and moved our stock from the previous Red Sea Max 250L
- January 2013: We start seeing signs of bleeching on a few corals
- February 2013: The problem got greater with more stock being affected.
- March 2013: No improvements and so far we have lost 70% of our stock. Approximately 1.800EUR (2300USD) going down the drain
- March 2013: Started systematic use of Bacteria and Bacteria food, cut alot on the quantity of feeding. Measurement every 5 days of pH, Temperature, Alkalinity, Mg, Ca, PO4, NO2, NO3, Ammonia, Potassium. Weekly 10% water change
- April 2013: After identifying that one of the potential issues could also be the water movement, we changed the heart of the Ocean Motion from 6.000L/hr to 16.500L/hr. Lookining into the lighting of the system we abandon the use of our own program and imported the Radion graph from Jonathan (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2124262) and increased the distance of the lamps to the water surface from 15cm to 25cm (6in to 10in)
- May 2013: We upgraded on our previous osmosis system (TDS reading 35) to a higher quality RO/DI device (TDS reading 0). We stopped stirring up the sand after investing some time educating ourselves in the sand bends and the importance of leaving it at peace


Status of today 18.05.2013
The system looks to be more stable. It has been over 4 months that our tank has not beeing doing good (out of the total of 5months of tank life). The added circulation and the dedicated husbandry has paid up to a certain level. Golden advice is that in this hobby good things take time to happen but how much patience can one have?

Some of the corals are doing very well whereas some other corals extremely bad:

- Bubble coral in the old system (Red Sea Max) with a NO3 reading of average 20 was doing great. In this system it is never totaly expanded and we can nearly almost always be able to see the skeleton.
- Even the easy to keep LPS coral are doing very bad. This week only a big hammer coral colony and a euphyllia coral kissed this world goodbye.
- Acropora millepora, acropora humilis, horn coral have been doing bad and eventually bleaching
- Kenya trea soft coral is doing good although we dont see as much growth as in the old tank
- Gorgonea, Pagoda cup, Zoanthids, green eye cup coral, red/blue mushroom is doing excellent
- Scolly bleeding apple is doing ok although it shows signs of "shrinking"
- Clam is doing excellent








Measurements history for the past 1.5 month:

Temperature: 25C (77F)
Nitrates NO3: There was a spike of 25 a month ago but ever since it has been going down and today it was 3
Nitrites NO2: 0
pH: Around 8.00-8.10
Alkalinity: Between 125-130
Salinity: 1.0245
Calcium: Between 400-480
Phosphates: We changed testing kit to a digital Hanna instrument and had readings from 0 - 0.4. Now it seems to have been stabilized at 0.02
Magnesium: Between 1350-1470
Copper: 0
Potassium: 375
Ammonia: < 0.25


I would and could use any piece of a good advice from you - Today for the first time i started flirting with the idea of giving up on the hobby

Thanks alot for taking your time in helping me.

Best wishes from Denmark,


Dino

 

[dave.m]

Five months old is a baby tank. Many people would tell you not to even put in the first piece of coral until after six months. It takes a long time for the various chemical elements to find their equilibrium in your system - on the order of several months, not just several weeks.

I think it is unrealistic for you to think that you could just slap all this together and expect to have a fully functioning, mature tank in five months. Many would say that a tank cannot be called mature until it is at least two years old. I think you should stop adding corals and let your tank settle, age and mature for a few more months at least.

But that's just me...

Dave.M

 

[cbitsiaras]

Five months old is a baby tank. Many people would tell you not to even put in the first piece of coral until after six months. It takes a long time for the various chemical elements to find their equilibrium in your system - on the order of several months, not just several weeks.

I think it is unrealistic for you to think that you could just slap all this together and expect to have a fully functioning, mature tank in five months. Many would say that a tank cannot be called mature until it is at least two years old. I think you should stop adding corals and let your tank settle, age and mature for a few more months at least.

But that's just me...

Dave.M

Thanks Dave for your reply. It is true that we rashed things too early and reading more and more about the chemistry i totally see your point. What would you do for the corals that shows signs of stress? would you try to move them to other places within the tank or just let them be? I am also worried that we place too frequently our hands (although properly washed and dried) in the tank.

Once again thanks for your time and advice.


Dino

 

[dave.m]

Again, just my opinion, but yes, you could try moving things around a bit. Try more light, less light, more current, less current.

Just don't add anything else for a couple of months at least. That which will survive will survive, else it won't. This is all part of the learning process for your individual tank. They are each unique and have their own personalities. Find what works for you and what doesn't, but don't be so quick to give up when things aren't going well. Stick it out and you may well be rewarded in time.

Many corals can come around if you wait long enough for them, but don't expect instant miracles. Anybody's tank can look good in a photo when the stock is fresh and healthy to begin with, but the proof is in how well things are doing 8-10 months later. That's why I don't think you have given your tank or yourself enough opportunity to see how things are really going to turn out.

Dave.M

 

[cbitsiaras]

Again, just my opinion, but yes, you could try moving things around a bit. Try more light, less light, more current, less current.

Just don't add anything else for a couple of months at least. That which will survive will survive, else it won't. This is all part of the learning process for your individual tank. They are each unique and have their own personalities. Find what works for you and what doesn't, but don't be so quick to give up when things aren't going well. Stick it out and you may well be rewarded in time.

Many corals can come around if you wait long enough for them, but don't expect instant miracles. Anybody's tank can look good in a photo when the stock is fresh and healthy to begin with, but the proof is in how well things are doing 8-10 months later. That's why I don't think you have given your tank or yourself enough opportunity to see how things are really going to turn out.

Dave.M

Dave thanks alot for the sincere feedback - just that extra push and reassurance i needed. I liked the part of this being a learning curve :thumbsup:

I just hope to reach a point where i can enjoy all these $$$$$ we have spent in building it.

Once again Dave, THANK YOU!


All the best


Dino

 

[Crazy_Beaver]

Be patient and methodic Dino!

It will eventually get where it should be!

 

[SUPPOReefer]

Any updates? I hope that the tank (and your back) are doing better.

 

[mr.lamnguyen]

after read through your thread, realize that nothing can stop the reefer

 

[Dreamer13]

G'day Dino,
Wow, i just read through the whole thread, and what an impressive setup you have!! I hope all the problems you've been having are disappearing into the past. I also have my share of problems with Cyanobacteria, but I'm slowly getting on top of it.
All the best, and keep on reefing, you will get through the rough times.

Cheers, Paul.

 

[cbitsiaras]

Long time no see...

Long time no see...

Hello everyone,

As you might noticed it has been a very long time since the last update on the thread. In full honesty I started losing my motivation and the touch with the fighter in me. The tank started with the best hopes and intentions "“ hundreds over hundreds of Euros spent in good equipment and even more hundreds of Euros spent in corals "“ and ended up killing us slowly but steadily. Everything that could go wrong went wrong and once one problem was fixed another problem came up. Is like a vicious circle spiralling us south.

What has changed since the last time is that
- on top of all existing problems with the Oceon Motion doing this tumble sound when turning - the pump for the Oceon Motion (16.500L/H) started making a horrible sound and vibrations that resulted in neighbours complaining and us shutting it down and replacing it by 2 borrowed Tunze pumps (2.500L/H) and 1 own pump (2.500L/H).
- 80% of our coral stock died
- We invested on an Aquatronica computer with SMS module measuring salinity, temperature, redox and pH

It was the first time we could measure Redox and the reading was disappointing: 114 mV with normal values around 350-400mV.

A friend of ours came to see the tank for a second opinion and he suggested we vacuumed the sand as it wasn't deep enough for a DSB neither swallow enough. From 6cm of sand we only left 1cm and during this 2 week process we lost further stock (1 Clam, 1 Anemone, 3 Fish) but this is something we were expecting to happen. After vacuuming the sand and in the course of the following weeks we could see an increase on the Redox potential to a maximum of 230 mV which is still way too low. The guy who has the shop suggested we buy Ozon reactor but I don't want to spend a single euro more on assumptions to the extend "œit could help" etc. We are not having money to waste and in fact we have started being financially tight because of the tank and its maintenance.

During the past 3 months I have been discussing with my partner if we should just put the whole thing down and call it a failed project and try to find another less stressful hobby but there is always something bringing us back. And these are good people who are already in the hobby and sharing their knowledge, experience and support. We have been lucky to have been invited at their homes and see their tanks and God knows how we felt "“ part of us was exceptionally happy for being able to achieve such a great result in house aquaria and another part of us was even more sad and concerned for the reasons why ours is far from looking like this.

In the following days I will take some pictures of how things stand today and will also mention a few observations asking your good opinions.

Once again thank you for all the support and time you spent reading our updates and commending.

Warm regards,
Dino

 

[Rogerh]

Sorry to hear about your loses in the tank. And it sounds like you had a rough start. I hope you will find motivation to continue
I really think this has the potential to be an amazing tank, and I really like the build and aquascape

Greetings from Norway!

 

[cbitsiaras]

Sorry to hear about your loses in the tank. And it sounds like you had a rough start. I hope you will find motivation to continue
I really think this has the potential to be an amazing tank, and I really like the build and aquascape

Greetings from Norway!

Thanks Roger for your supporting words. Would it have been only a couple of things going wrong then is ok but everything has just been totally F...d! :headwallblue:

If you are ever in Copenhagen drop me a line.

 

[Sonicboom]

Your tank caused me to redo my rock work at least 3 times, and i have read through your thread at least 4 times., I did notice the extensive use of silicone to attach a lot of the rock work as well as feet for the rocks. Could the silicone be leaching VOC's or any other undesirable into the water? Hang in there and things will work out.

 

[adddo]

I hope you guys find the motivation to keep it up.

Best wishes from Sweden.

 

[Aleks677]

Do not hang your nose! All should get.
Is there in your system export system NO3 and phosphate?
Biopellets or algae?
And another question, do not think about setting calcium reactor?

 

[Sparkpaul]

Five months old is a baby tank. Many people would tell you not to even put in the first piece of coral until after six months. It takes a long time for the various chemical elements to find their equilibrium in your system - on the order of several months, not just several weeks.

I think it is unrealistic for you to think that you could just slap all this together and expect to have a fully functioning, mature tank in five months. Many would say that a tank cannot be called mature until it is at least two years old. I think you should stop adding corals and let your tank settle, age and mature for a few more months at least.

But that's just me...

Dave.M

+1

Please please don't give up yet.
I am from Taiwan and I have shared your build to many enthusiasts and they are inspired by your design.

In our country, corals are cheap in comparison with Denmark and United States. It is a good thing but also a bad thing; some people treat corals like flowers arrangements they put in homes and they just throw out old dead ones and buy new ones every week. That was me with my first tank because the system wasn't matured and I just kept putting stuff in.

With all the different creatures in the tank causing constant change of variables that we can't even measure. My first tank never took off and the more suggestion people have me, the more changes I was making to the tank, more organisms went to heaven.

The first tank died and so did my passion for it. So I quitted my tank. It took a year for me to regain interest and my motivation and during this time I did my home work. And I figured out the basics; patience, routine/discipline, and observation.

For my second tank (similar size to yours), I did what most people I know don't do in Taiwan. I waited for my tank to cycle for two full months before I added any coral. My friends were laughing at me because they thought that I was keeping an algae tank and one person actually thought it was a beautiful algae tank. However I was determined to have a tank that can be as beautiful as some of the tank on this forum.

Once the algaes and cyano disappeared, I started adding inhabitants, little at a time. Not only the new organism need to get use to my tank, my system (bacteria/bioload) had to adjust to the new organism. While all the same time, I tested my water daily (occasionally more than once); from salinity to alkalinity, ammonia to phosphate.

With all the specific suggestions people give you, and with only good intentions, it might make it more difficult for your inhabitants in your tank because all the changes that's happening in such short amount of time.

Please don't quit and I'm sorry I can't give you any specific solution because it'd only be speculation as no one has the whole picture.

You can make it, just give it time for the system and the organisms to equalize and adapt to your routine.

Ps: for reference, a 30cm green haddoni anemone is $30usd and rbta is $10-20. I have to buy a QT tank ($100usd) today to treat my sick haddoni because someone fed it a dead tang. It's cheaper to just buy another haddoni but I dont want him to die.

 

[cbitsiaras]

Your tank caused me to redo my rock work at least 3 times, and i have read through your thread at least 4 times., I did notice the extensive use of silicone to attach a lot of the rock work as well as feet for the rocks. Could the silicone be leaching VOC's or any other undesirable into the water? Hang in there and things will work out.

Very happy to hear that our set up has been inspiring. We did use alot of silicon use but it was the aquarium silicon we used. I also start wondering if this silicon was leaking anything in the water but If silicon would leak some toxics then i assume that most if not all stock would go meet little Jesus.I sincerely hope not. We are minimizing the possibilities by taking out elements (now in the process of removing the entire sand) and observing.

Thanks alot for your support - send some positive vibes!!

Dino

 

[cbitsiaras]

I hope you guys find the motivation to keep it up.

Best wishes from Sweden.

Tak så mycket Vi håber!