scolley's Big Little Nano – yet another build thread

[scolley]

Winning the Cyano battle...

Winning the Cyano battle...

It's too early to declare victory, but I'm making great strides with my cyano problem. It had been pretty pervasive on the rocks. But tonight I had to get my wife to help me even find it. There's much, much less.

But the big deal is that when I remove it, it does not seem to return. As little as a week ago anything removed came back. Soon. Now what I'm removing seems to be staying gone. This is an EARLY call on the matter, and need more time to be sure. But things are looking very, very encouraging.

Here's the average pH of my tank over the last 6 weeks. Overall the pH has been raising. And it the raising of the pH is attributable to less CO2 trapped in the house, that could be a factor in beating back the cyano - less CO2 trapped in the house, and feeding carbon to the cyano.

The real decline - or rather lack of growing back after removal - has begun within the last week. First growing back more slowly, now appearing to not come back at all. And it's been in the last week that I've begun the regular dosing of KZ Korallen-Zucht products, a combination of their ZEObac and Coral Snow. I would think the ZEObac alone would do it, but they recommend dosing it with Coral Snow. Maybe the bacteria in ZEObac eats the Coral Snow.

I wouldn't know. What I do know is that it appears to be working. :thumbsup:

 

[scolley]

VICTORY!

Yes, I'm declaring it over my cyano. Is it ALL gone? No. I deliberately left small amounts undisturbed so I can monitor its retreat. And it's almost invisible now. A couple specs. Nothing more.

Seeing it not return to places where I vacuumed it out was great. Seeing it shrink - day by day -from the "control" locations is the writing on the wall.

The problem was getting pretty nasty. And to make matters worse, as the problem was increasing I was adding fish and food. But I never believed my problem was an overloaded system. I stock fish lightly, feed lightly, and use a solid CUC. Instead I suspected my problem was a poor biological ecosystem - not enough bacterial diversity to out compete the cyano. So I started the aforementioned ZEObac and Coral Snow. And it worked. Quickly. And without the destructive effects of the various gram-negative bacteriacides sold OTC.

I gather SpecialBlend works the same way. I'm surprised so many cyano threads suggest black-outs or antibiotics, when other non-destructive methods work so well. Naturally no method is any good if you haven't addressed root cause. So if root cause is over feeding... Or too many nutrients or other carbon sources, you've got to fix that. But in a new tank the root cause may just be the lack of bacterialogical diversity. And THAT'S easily fixed.

Seeing is believing. Or as the Brits say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. :thumbsup:

 

[clittrell]

Great news!

 

[nsyahron]

I just started dosing CS+ Zeobac...glad it worked for you

 

[scolley]

FWIW - I did not follow Korallen-Zucht's instructions to the letter. I under-dosing their recommended amounts of Coral Snow, and slightly over dosed ZEObac. And they recommend mixing Coral Snow with a different one of their element solutions, which I did not do at all. I only mixed ZEObac with Coral Snow. Nothing else.

For Coral Snow they recommended 0.5 to 4 ml daily, per 25 gallons of water. My total system is roughly 40g, but I only dosed 0.25 ml Coral Snow daily. That's like 1/3 of their minimum dose. I used VERY little.

But for fighting Cyano they recommend 1 drop per 25 gallons of water of ZEObac mixed with the Coral Snow. I used two drop for my 40g, which is a bit higher than their recommendation. And to kick-start the process, on the first day I used 20 drops.

And on top of that every several days I siphoned out the cyano. And it was only a few days before the cyano was not returning. Good luck nsyahron, and to anyone trying this for themselves!

 

[scolley]

OK, cyano's fixed, and I still think I have a skimming issue. So I bought an SC-65 off the seller on eBay. It should ALMOST fit in my stand. With a little modding I think it will. And at only $80 (shipping included!) if it's a bust, I haven't broken the bank.

The inside of my stand above the sump is so crammed with equipment, that it will be a major ordeal to get it in there - significant replumbing required. So I can't really put the SC-65 in the sump to test it without major work. But I still need to know if it is better than my Tunze 9002.

So I put the SC-65 in a 5g bucket, added new salt water to 9.5" depth, same as my sump, and poured in 4-5 days of skimmate from my Tunze. This is after breaking in on a 24 hour run of vinegar and freshwater. That allowed me to tune the SC-65 in, because I could test repeatedly, by pouring its grog back in the bucket, tune the air flow, and skim some more.

Then I built a pedestal in my tank for the SC-65 to sit on. It keeps it in 9.5" of water, just as it would be in my sump. I though I'd run it a day or two - with my Tunze 9002 running - to get a comparison.

 

[scolley]

It was last nite when I started with both skimmers clean and running. No feedings since the test started. And here's what I was shocked to find this morning, 14 hours later...


Tunze 9002

SC-65

Grog poured into measuring cups, 9002 on left, SC-65 on the right.

And a view of how much gunk remained in the respective cups for cleaning.

No need for further tests... Bye bye Tunze 9002.

Any one want to buy as small used skimmer? :thumbsup:

 

[scolley]

With our unusually warm weather last week, I figured I needed to get the lead out, and go ahead and get my chiller hooked up. I didn't have the plumbing run to the chiller when I put the tank up. So doing it now was a PITA, because I had to move the tank to get to the back of the stand to do it.

That meant draining tank and sump, moving the tank, hook up plumbing, test plumbing, and then put everything back. My corals were out of water almost exactly an hour. So every ten minutes I took a cup of tank water, and poured it over each and every coral. I guess that was the one time that I was glad that I don't have very many.

It's done now though. So now I've got to turn my attention to making room in my sump for that new skimmer. That's going to be an even bigger PITA. But it's got to be done. The results of that comparison of the two skimmers was pretty compelling.

 

[clittrell]

That is impressive work. I have to move three tanks at school in June because of construction. Not going to be fun.

 

[scolley]

I didn't really "move" the tank. It was just sliding the stand two feet away. Moving tanks - as in completely drained and off the stand - is another matter entirely. I shudder to think about doing that with a reef tank.

Good luck.

Oh... my corals looked pretty much ok today. Some possible STN on the tips of one. And one small (very small) Birds Nest frag definitely bit the bullet.

So a minor loss for the major event. I'm betting everything else will be just fine.

 

[iwishtofish]

My Tunze 9002 never did anything for me - not surprised at your results. I don't think I could ever bring myself to sell it...I'd feel too guilty.

 

[scolley]

My Tunze 9002 never did anything for me - not surprised at your results. I don't think I could ever bring myself to sell it...I'd feel too guilty.

I've been carefully tweaking that little skimmer for a couple of years now, and I'm nit convinced it's doing a BAD job. I suspect that while it skims consistently thick, dark skimmate, that it could be doing more.

In other words, is put side by side with better skimmer, that initially it will be out performed because the other skimmer pulls DEEPER. But once the deeper skimming that the "better" skimmer has pulled out everything the These could not, that they will perform in tandem.

Bottom line... Its a decent skimmer in terms of consistent performance. But that performance is consistently less than some of competition. I'll test that theory - for the benefit of the community - once I get the new skimmer installed.

 

[scolley]

From day one it's been clear that I've tried to cram too much into my stand. It's all in there, but it's either inspiration made real or a fool's dream manifest. You be the judge.

One thing's for certain... It does not accommodate room for change.

To make this new skimmer fit I've got to shave 1/2" off the height of the skimmer. Fortunately a local club member - clittrell - has both the tools and knowledge to help with that. Thanks Chris! :thumbsup:

But that's just headroom. I still had to make room for the footprint of a new skimmer. And that space directly competes with my ATS.The Tunze had a small footprint and that was planned in.The new skimmer only needs an additional 2" in one direction. But what a PITA it was to provide it!

But after much cursing, swearing, and 3 to 4 hours time, I was able to gain the two inches space needed for the new skimmer. Something had to give, and the the ATS is now 2" less wide. So my ATS will be less efficient, I'm hoping the loss will be mitigated by a more efficient skimmer.

 

[scolley]

In other words, is put side by side with better skimmer, that initially it will be out performed because the other skimmer pulls DEEPER. But once the deeper skimming that the "better" skimmer has pulled out everything the These could not, that they will perform in tandem.

Bottom line... Its a decent skimmer in terms of consistent performance. But that performance is consistently less than some of competition. I'll test that theory - for the benefit of the community - once I get the new skimmer installed.

Well... I didn't do a perfect test on this. But did a decent one.

This week the Tunze's been in my DT, since it was moved out of the sump to make room for the SC-65. And in the DT it's been performing exceptionally well, relative to it's normal performance. Over the course of 3-4 days it pulled out 25ml of dark green grog.

THEN I got the SC-65 modded so it's a bit shorter - just enough to fit in the sump. I let it run for two days, and each day its volume of grog increased. Breaking back in I guess, after being dry for weeks.

So I emptied and cleaned both cups - the Tunze 9002's and the SC-65's, and fired them up in tandem. At the end of 24 hours, the Tunze had 3ml of grong, and not quite as dark as before, with a neck full of nasty foam. The SC-65 likewise had its neck and lid filled with nasty foam - though much more of it. And it held about 12 ml of skimmate liquid, almost identical in color to the Tunze.

Given the Tunze's solo performance this past week, it should have pulled 2-3 times that amount of skimmate in 24 hours. There WAS that much available clearly because of the volume the SC-65 had. But it didn't. I think - but cannot prove - is that when operating in tandem, both of the pull skimmate out until the water's dissolved organics reach a low enough density that the Tunze cannot pull anymore, and it stops. In fact the foam in the Tunze's neck was dry - no wet froth moving up and down the neck. It had quit skimming while the SC-65 was still actively skimming.

So for a while they skimmed together - the SC-65 getting more just because it's a bigger skimmer. And then the Tunze hit a wall, unable to skim any more - too low a DO concentration.But the SC-65 just kept on pulling.

So I hate retiring my Tunze 9002. It's been a good and faithful little skimmer, fitting in my stand when no other could. But it's not even in the same league as the SC-65.

 

[scolley]

And I'd like to give a special shout-out to clittrell who modded my SC-65's cup so that it could fit in the stand. Thanks pal! :wavehand:

He's a local reef club member, but I'd never been to his house. I saw AMAZING things. Tools to make DIY'er just stand there slack-jawed and drooling.

We the cracked the cup on the first cut. The saw went 80% through then POW! We needed to brace it differently - live and learn. And maybe shatter is a better word, than cracked. Not into a bunch of pieces, more like 5 or 6 generally large pieces. But with some on-the-spot application of Weldon-4 to put Humpty Dumpty back together, and a modified bracing technique, clittrell was able to continue the cutting with nary an incident. He is masterful in his use of his saws.

When all was said and done, I applied some Weldon-16 (the gloppy stuff) to tightly seal up tiny cracks not covered by the Wedon-4. And the end product is a cup that does not look nearly as bad as I've made it sound. It's sturdy. It holds grog, and skims like a beast. A VERY successful modding session IMO!

Now I can fit a skimmer in my stand that should skim deep enough to make my SPS happy! Time to grow some more SPS! :dance:

 

[clittrell]

Thanks for the shout out. It was fun!

 

[scolley]

Thanks for the shout out. It was fun!

Yes indeed, it was! :thumbsup:

 

[iwishtofish]

I'm glad you got all that worked out. If I didn't have a powerful skimmer, I'd have an algae farm right now.

Speaking of algae, how's the turf scrubber going? I wonder if the bigger skimmer pulling out more DOCs will affect that...

 

[scolley]

Speaking of algae, how's the turf scrubber going? I wonder if the bigger skimmer pulling out more DOCs will affect that...

It's a problem. I cut it's width back by 2". So it's considerably smaller. Maybe 1/3 smaller. But I'm hoping that having a more powerful skimmer will leave it with less to do, so it won't matter. Frankly my nitrates and phosphates were SO low, that if this modification allowed small amounts to remain, I suspect it would not be much.

The real problem with it is functionality. When I cut it back - and moved it - I messed up how the water is flowing across the mat. The plastic sheet that the algae mat grows on is just as shade too wide for the smaller slotted PVC that it hangs from. So it bunches up a bit. So clearly I've got a bit more work on it to get it right.

But I've been glancing at it, and it's still growing algae. I guess it's pretty simple; keep it wet, give it lots of light, and algae grows. It's still doing that. :thumbsup:

 

[scolley]

In the grand scheme of things, I'm pretty excited because that last bit of ATS tweaking is the last thing to do. Everything else is done! Finally.

So what is it, early April? I started building the stand in early October, and did the tank transfer in December. So the whole process took six months. Wow.

And I'm glad to be done with it. :thumbsup:

It's been fun... but earlier I mentioned all the boxes I've had pulled out because I never knew when I would need a part? ALL those boxes have been out and in the way for months and months: the electrical parts box, the hose connections box; the hose/pipe bracket box, the box of spare heaters, box of PVC part, etc. The list is long. But they're all put away now. I could do that yesterday, knowing that there was no more real work to be done. Finally.

If feels GOOD to be at the end of the build journey. Now I can throw all my energy into coral husbandry, and growing configuring the DT contents to look as good in actual fact as it does in my imagination.