Any one have experience using this denitrifying media?
http://www.bigalsonline.com/edealin...684&siId=1380234&catParentID=18401&scId=18401
http://www.bigalsonline.com/edealin...684&siId=1380234&catParentID=18401&scId=18401
Sea Chem Matrix media
- Thread starter tmz
- Start date
ElDiabloPollo
New member
Tom,
I have used there Matrix Carbon and PhosGaurd. I like both, SeaChem seems to make quality products. I have thought about using Matrix, but I worry it may yeild similar results to bio-balls or similar media. I think in a PhosBan or Fuidized bed reactor it mght be ok cause enough flow would inhibit detrius build-up.
J
I have used there Matrix Carbon and PhosGaurd. I like both, SeaChem seems to make quality products. I have thought about using Matrix, but I worry it may yeild similar results to bio-balls or similar media. I think in a PhosBan or Fuidized bed reactor it mght be ok cause enough flow would inhibit detrius build-up.
J
Well I have a lot of live rock(somewhere around 400lbs) in th 550gal system and one old dsb in a 90 gal. I'm adding another 30gallon remote dsb. I also have several chaeto/gracileria refugia totaling 70 gallons. I have a large bioload including about 40 fish and over a hundred corals. I feed well and want to continue doing so. Almost no nuisance algae. Did not think I had any nitrates per red sea test kit. Salifert shows about 40ppm or so.API 20ppm > I thought 4 or 6 litres of this material in one of the sumps with flow on it might be helpful and would like to hear of any experiences ,good or bad with it.Thanks for your reply.
I did just add another asm g4x Wenesday. Now there are two with a combined rating of 900gallons. Well I don't need any more nitrication . Seachem claims the porosity of the media will support anoxic areas for denitrification so I was hoping to hear wether or not that should be trusted. I take your opinion to mean it can't. I will be adding the additional sandbed tommorow. As for feeding, I don't think I'm overfeeding but will reexamine that part of the approach. Maybe I should add a clam or two.
jdieck
New member
With a diameter of about 3/8 of an inch I do not think it will be enough depth to realy provide for anoxic areas for denitrification.
The additional skimmer will certainly help although for a system with a total of 600 gallons and a high fish bioload you may need a total rating of over 2000 gallons in skimming (Usualy 3 to 5 times the system capacity).
The end of the matter is that 40 fish is really a lot for a reef system that needs minimum nitrates.
The additional skimmer will certainly help although for a system with a total of 600 gallons and a high fish bioload you may need a total rating of over 2000 gallons in skimming (Usualy 3 to 5 times the system capacity).
The end of the matter is that 40 fish is really a lot for a reef system that needs minimum nitrates.
Thanks again for responding. It's very helpful to have a sounding board.
FWIW one of the needle wheel skimmers ciruclates 900gph and the other 1500gph. The ratings of 450gallons each are for tank size each per the manufacturer. These are relatively large skimmers with an 8 inch diameter tube and 30inches of height.I'm hopeful the additional skimmer will have a significant impact. I am also running them a bit wetter than I used to.
I am able to keep phosphates around .1 to .15(hanna) running gfo and macro refugia and have virtually no nuisance algae.I also run carbon.
LPS are dong well as well as a bit of slow growing xenia. SPS have good color in my opinion and are growing. I wan't to keep a mixed system and find a way to get enough nutirent export to manage it well.Maybe I'm chasiong windmills. I have plenty of room since the sump/refugia/sand bed stuff is in the unfinsihed basement.
As for fish 11 of them are medium sized(2 butterflies, 1 Genacathus angel, 3 Siganus, 3 Zebrasoma. 1 Paracanturus. The rest are fairly small wrasses,chromis, anthias ,clowns and 7 in a separate system. Granted that may be too many if I want reef like low nutirents but it still averages around 5.5 fish per 100gallons and I am trying to manage down the nutrient levels with the extra skimming and the addition of a new sandbed and the ongoing maintenance of the refugia and extra sump rock.
FWIW one of the needle wheel skimmers ciruclates 900gph and the other 1500gph. The ratings of 450gallons each are for tank size each per the manufacturer. These are relatively large skimmers with an 8 inch diameter tube and 30inches of height.I'm hopeful the additional skimmer will have a significant impact. I am also running them a bit wetter than I used to.
I am able to keep phosphates around .1 to .15(hanna) running gfo and macro refugia and have virtually no nuisance algae.I also run carbon.
LPS are dong well as well as a bit of slow growing xenia. SPS have good color in my opinion and are growing. I wan't to keep a mixed system and find a way to get enough nutirent export to manage it well.Maybe I'm chasiong windmills. I have plenty of room since the sump/refugia/sand bed stuff is in the unfinsihed basement.
As for fish 11 of them are medium sized(2 butterflies, 1 Genacathus angel, 3 Siganus, 3 Zebrasoma. 1 Paracanturus. The rest are fairly small wrasses,chromis, anthias ,clowns and 7 in a separate system. Granted that may be too many if I want reef like low nutirents but it still averages around 5.5 fish per 100gallons and I am trying to manage down the nutrient levels with the extra skimming and the addition of a new sandbed and the ongoing maintenance of the refugia and extra sump rock.
StashuDave
New member
Tom, I,ve tried a large bucket of this stuff in a 180 and it really didn't do anything. The problem with any of this denitrification seems to be oxygen. Even if it really is as porus as they claim, we are just passing oxygenated water over it at too great at rate for any real denitrification to occur. You may want to try some sort of sulfur based denitrification, possibly run from 1 of your refugiums. I think you'd be much better spending your money on a Calcium reactor and filling it with sulfur media and arragoniteand giving it some time....that's what I did, and will be experimenting with further.
Dave
Dave
jdieck
New member
Tom:
Yes those skimmers shall help a lot, as Dave mentions other means of de-nitrification may be helpful. You can also consider boosting your bacterial population which will help also with skimmers removing excess bacteria as means of export so take a look at either AZNO3, vodka or sugar dosing.
Yes those skimmers shall help a lot, as Dave mentions other means of de-nitrification may be helpful. You can also consider boosting your bacterial population which will help also with skimmers removing excess bacteria as means of export so take a look at either AZNO3, vodka or sugar dosing.
Thanks Dave.
I have a calcium reactor running. Could you elaborate on the sulfur/argonite set up? Do you just pass water through it or CO2 as well? What effluent ph do you aim for? Does it also dissolve the argonite for calicum alkalinity supplementation? What does the sulfur do? Does it feed bacteria in the reactor itself?
I understand the oxygenation issue with any media. I appreciate you sharing your experience with matrix media.
I have a calcium reactor running. Could you elaborate on the sulfur/argonite set up? Do you just pass water through it or CO2 as well? What effluent ph do you aim for? Does it also dissolve the argonite for calicum alkalinity supplementation? What does the sulfur do? Does it feed bacteria in the reactor itself?
I understand the oxygenation issue with any media. I appreciate you sharing your experience with matrix media.
StashuDave
New member
The sulfur reactors are still a new idea, but it looks like there is some good science behind them and more and more companies are making them. Most of them are basically the same as calcium reactors, a dual reactor type setup seems to be the idea. Basically instead of filling the first chamber with arragonite you fill it with the sulfur media. As with a CA reactor you have a circulation pump cycling the media in the first chamber and slowly have the effluent flow thru the second chamber. There is no need for CO2 addition, the sulfur lowers the pH a great deal ( down to about 7.0 in my limited experience) The sulfur is supposed to be a food source for denitrifying bacteria and because of the slow flow (slower than a normal Ca reactor output) we can greatly reduce the amount of oxygenated water inside the reactor creating really big populations of denitrifying bacteria. The 2nd chamber is really just like the second chamber on a CA reactor, used to hopefully melt a little media and bring the effluent pH back up.
You can really get the best of both worlds using 1 of these, reduced Nitrates, and a little boostin CA and ALK. Only reported drawback I've heard of was the yellowing of your water (the sulfur is really yellow). This can be fixed by flowing the efflunt thru some carbon or just using some extra carbon in your system.
I've only played with 1 of these, a small Coralife CA reactor that I filled about 60% with sulfur and 40% ARM chunky media. I was able to monitor the pH and connect all of the reactor hoses to allow the single circulation pump to both draw in and push out the water. I reduced the effluent drip down to a drop every 2 to 3 seconds. Once it was setup up all I really did was check the drip rate and waited. My nitrates went down somewhere in the 20 ppm range ( 40 down to 20) over the course of about 4 weeks. Again just a small experiment, but I am going to test a larger dual reactor on a larger system (400+ gallons) The tank has Nitrates near 200 so it may take a while but if there are any bigger drawbacks, it'll have a lot more water to dilute into.
Dave
You can really get the best of both worlds using 1 of these, reduced Nitrates, and a little boostin CA and ALK. Only reported drawback I've heard of was the yellowing of your water (the sulfur is really yellow). This can be fixed by flowing the efflunt thru some carbon or just using some extra carbon in your system.
I've only played with 1 of these, a small Coralife CA reactor that I filled about 60% with sulfur and 40% ARM chunky media. I was able to monitor the pH and connect all of the reactor hoses to allow the single circulation pump to both draw in and push out the water. I reduced the effluent drip down to a drop every 2 to 3 seconds. Once it was setup up all I really did was check the drip rate and waited. My nitrates went down somewhere in the 20 ppm range ( 40 down to 20) over the course of about 4 weeks. Again just a small experiment, but I am going to test a larger dual reactor on a larger system (400+ gallons) The tank has Nitrates near 200 so it may take a while but if there are any bigger drawbacks, it'll have a lot more water to dilute into.
Dave
Thanks Dave, I'd like to hear how it works as you move along. I have done a search on the sulfur reactors . One point of noteFYI is that they can result in falling alkalinity which can be overcome with dosing baking soda. Another factor of seemingly minimal concern is a buildup of sulfate overtime.
I have added another skimmer basically tripling skimming activity and will be adding a 30 gallon remote deep sand bed tommorow(picked up the sand today). I have already increased macro algae refugia capacity. I'll work those enhancements for 6 to 8weeks and monitor nitrate. Nitrates are currently in the 30 to40ppm range and don't seem to be creating a severe problem but this is a parameter I want to improve.
I will continue to think about the nitrate reactor option in addition to what I am doing now..
I have added another skimmer basically tripling skimming activity and will be adding a 30 gallon remote deep sand bed tommorow(picked up the sand today). I have already increased macro algae refugia capacity. I'll work those enhancements for 6 to 8weeks and monitor nitrate. Nitrates are currently in the 30 to40ppm range and don't seem to be creating a severe problem but this is a parameter I want to improve.
I will continue to think about the nitrate reactor option in addition to what I am doing now..
