Seio controller and nanos - upon further review

DarG

New member
Some of you were following the long thread regarding the Seio controller and using it with other pumps besides Seio.

I had hooked up a Tunze Nano 6025 to this controller along with a Hydor Koralia 4. Early observations was that both these pumps were working fine with the controller. Well, it's been a few days now and the results with the Tunze aren't as they initially seemed. When the controller switches to low speed, on occassion the Tunze Nano will become noisy. It appears to be some type of cavitation of the propellar on the Tunze, only on low speed and only sometimes. The Tunze prop does not revolve around a full length shaft. I believe that the prop spins with a slight wobble when the controller slows to 50%. It's just enough of a wobble for the propeller to rub up against the sides of that inside "tube" . I also think that it only occurs when there is a higher demand for electricity and the supply voltage to the house drops some. Where I live, when AC demand is high the voltage can drop below 110 volts (seen it as low as 107). I'm not an electrician or electrical engineer so I don't know for sure if this is what causes the issue but I think it would make sense. Its getting hotter by the day (Florida) and AC demand is definitely climbing now. I notice the issue mainly mid afternoon and early evening, never in the morning or late at night.
A full length shaft would probably solve the issue, the Koralia doesn't have the same problem and it's prop runs on a full length shaft, the Nano does not. It's also the same on 2 different 6025's, so it's not a faulty or finicky pump.

If anyone else decided to try their nano's on the Seio controller, I'd love to hear your experience. I have a feeling that not everyone will have this issue. The power grid here, or whatever you call it, is lacking and I really do believe that the voltage drop is the issue.
 

jacmyoung

Premium Member
Thanks for the report. Seio specified the controller to be used on three of their larger pumps, not the smaller ones. Tunze 6025 at 7W is smaller than one of the smaller Seio pumps. Could be why you have the problem.
 

DarG

New member
Yeah, could be. But no issues with the Koralia 4 at 12 watts. I'm betting no issues with my Koralia 3's either, when I get them back. They are only 7 watts I think. Unless the newer ones dont have the bottom to top shafts. The weird thing is that most of the time, they work fine. It's only when the power demand is high and that is when the voltage drops out some. I'm thinking still that whatever the controller does to reduce the speed, the voltage drop is just doing enough to cause the controller to reduce it just a bit lower than normal and the Nano's prop speed is reduced just enough to cause a wobble. The Nanos only partly rotate around the metal shaft so they have the potential to wobble. It is very possible that the reduction in speed is enough to cause them to wobble. In fact, when they are otherwise running silently, putting pressure on the housing to position it in the swivel is enough to make the props contact the sides and make that same noise when the Seio was running on low setting. There is very little clearance for the prop. It may need a minimum speed to rotate true and anything beloe that causes the slight wobble.
 

jacmyoung

Premium Member
If the only cause you suspect is vibration and noise at low speed, the prop can be balanced to eliminate such noise. The stock props do not need to be perfectly balanced since they are designed to run at very high speed.

I have done 6055 mods and also noticed while holding the pump in my hand and in low speed the pump vibrated more than in high speed. The vibration is normal and can not be totally eliminated, but if you can hear noise then it can be improved by filing down one prop blade in very small increment at a time, then reassemble the pump, hold it in your hand and run it in low speed again to see how much improvement you get. If the vibration gets better you picked the right blade to file, if it gets worse then just file the other blade at twice the effort than the first filing, you should feel the improvement.

Just make sure you do such things while all the electricals are plugged into a GFCI outlet, and test the outlet with a little three-prong GFCI tester first, don't assume your GFCI will work.
 

jacmyoung

Premium Member
In keeping with the safety precaution, in the test above where pump needs to be held to check its balance, a simple holding strip can be used to clamp the magnet holders on to it so you can handle the pump without getting wet.
 

DarG

New member
Anyone still interested?

I changed my theory some. The Koralias as well as the Tunze pumps began to rattle sometimes during peak current demand periods of the day. Mainly in the afternoons. As I stated, the voltage really can drop out here during these periods, mainly in the summertime. Its already in the 90 degree range and airconditioning is definitely back on and running on and off 24 /7. I began wondering if the Seio controller is outputting an ugly waveform in response to lower supply voltage. Started seeing the rattling more frequently, specifically every time the Chiller would run while the house AC was on during the afternoon. So I really thought there might be something to my theory. Maybe the Tunze and the Koralias to a lessser degree aren't happy with whatver waveform the controller is spitting out when the supply voltage drops out. So I decided to try plugging the controller in to a Line Conditioner / Voltage Regulator. Figured that if my theory was correct that this would fix the problem.

I got a Tripp Lite Line Conditioner which steps up low supply voltage and steps down high supply voltage back to 120 volts with a clean sine wave.
Plugged the Tripp into the wall and the Seio into the Tripp and set it back to automatic with a 30 second interval. There is still the one Nano and one Koralia 3 on the controller. So far, so good. The chiller has cycled on and off, the central air was on and so far the pumps are dead quiet. No rattling when the controller has them on 50% speed.

Guess I'll know for sure in a day or 2 if this is the solution.

In the meantime, any input on my theory, positive, critcial or otherwise, would be greatly appreciated.
 

jacmyoung

Premium Member
Good work there GarG. The only comment I have is I don't feel 50/100 will give good enough wave action. My Tunze controller's 30/100 pulsing is still not good enough for me, I like to have maybe 15/100 pulsing to provide more wave action.
 

J3REEF

New member
Decided not to wait on Tunze and purchased two HK4's and two HK3's for a 120 reef tank. Good to hear about the Seio controller working out ok.

I am still undecided on how I will setup the HK's.

I am thinking that I will run the HK4's off the Seio setting them in the back middle of the tank facing foward with a slight tilt downward and have the HK3's running full out on the back sides facing each other.

Thoughts?
 

DarG

New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9954708#post9954708 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jacmyoung
Good work there GarG. The only comment I have is I don't feel 50/100 will give good enough wave action. My Tunze controller's 30/100 pulsing is still not good enough for me, I like to have maybe 15/100 pulsing to provide more wave action.

I agree. Would have been more effective if it could have been railed down just enough to keep the props moving. It's probably a stop-gap for now. But since I bought it, I figured I would try and get it to work. For now, I'll use the Seio and just wait and see what Hydor comes out with down the road, see if they come up with something a little better.
 

sandman450f

Premium Member
Im gonna jump in here with a question regarding running 4 k4s on the seio controller. Has anyone split the outputs and tried this? I wanna dump the MJs i have now and go all K4
 

DarG

New member
Last night I hooked up the other 2 pumps. There is a K3 and a Tunzo Nano 6025 on each outlet. So far, still no problems. I have a unique situation with the power in my area. If your supply voltage stays up, I think that the Seio will run everything fine. But it really believe that it outputs a less than perfect waveform when it's supply voltage dips or isnt perfectly "clean". The Tunze and to a lesser degree the Koralias don't respond well to whatever it was outputting in those conditions. Probably why Seio rated it for certian models of their pumps only.
The line conditioner is working great for me. The Seio is working great, and both the Tunze and Koralia pumps are running quiet.
That should be the case without any power filtering or voltage step-up in most areas.
 
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