sell me on LEDS!

[kissman]

WOW great info from everybody! Thanks, I have been reading about the Reefbreeders LEDS and thinking about them hard. I also like some of the higher end ones, Radion, AI, etc...I have T5's and tired of spending $120 a year on bulbs! I want a set of LED's that will not limit me to what I can grow

 

[CHSUB]

here are some of my sps' under a "full spectrum" led lamp after 8 months....if you want sps' stay with t5.

 

[asid61]

here are some of my sps' under a "full spectrum" led lamp after 8 months....if you want sps' stay with t5.

Try raising the bulb next time.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Try raising the bulb next time.

Hey, he killed a few corals and it's the light's fault. It couldn't be he made a mistake could it? We are all just growing sps and lps corals under an led illusion. They really aren't growing, the tank is shrinking due to the cooler temperatures! :rollface::lol2:

 

[Khemul]

That's the tricky thing with LEDs.

T5's...you really can't screw it up. Put the maximum amount of bulbs possible over a tank and you're set. There are only so many real bulb combinations, so that is hard to screw up. Roughly the same for MH, although there is some more potential for mistakes.

LEDs...very easy to screw it up. Wrong color combination. Wrong intensity. Wrong optics. Wrong acclimation. etc. With enough work, these are able to be worked out, but it isn't as simple as saying "Switch the Aquablue for a Blue+". And for some people the LED train dies right there. Get a fixture, have a disaster, blame the fixture and return to what worked before.

It doesn't help that the common suggestions for LED fixtures are about 2-3x what is actually needed (unfortunately it isn't always avoidable, because of the coverage/penetration balance), making it easy to nuke the corals with little effort.

A LOT more potential for user error (especially the type that the user has absolutely no idea about), which is essentially why there are so many mixed reviews out there on specific units. The rest of the LED debate...what Ron said...

 

[chadfarmer]

no need to sell u on leds go see a fellow reefers tank and decide for your self even a fish store

 

[kissman]

one feature I liked and I think was on the AI was an acclimation where it would ramp up your lights say 1% a day for example. I like the shimmer, I like the cheaper electricity, I like that I don't have to change out bulbs each year. I am not happy with my 6x54w Nova Extreme Pro T5. Just isn't enough it seems 650 PAR under lights, 200-250 half way down and 100-150 on sand bed. I have only played around I need to take a day and do an honest PAR reading all over the tank.

I want an LED fixture that I won't want to replace any time soon, I want to buy the right one first

 

[kissman]

The Maxspec R420R are pretty nice I wonder what PAR they are putting out? I also see they are coming out with 2 rails so you can connect 2 together instead of having the rest on a center brace

 

[Kattes]

Personally I'd rather boil my head than go from t5 to full led.. However, I can appreciate the heat and bulb savings they provide, so how about opening that ATI up, rewiring it and then taking a circular saw to it. Drop in something like two wide angle kessils in the middle and bam, you have nice spectrum, spread and shimmer and you can run it with four or six tubes. Or just go for an ati hybrid which I'd be inclined to see as the most interesting light on the market today.

 

[ActorMike]

Love my LEDs. I actually run three true lumen pro Leds on my 46 bow. I kept my 2 bulb t5 and run actinic in there.

Corals are doing well and growing quickly.

 

[CHSUB]

for the leds guys....why is Divers Den still using MH? leds are great for leathers, just ask Ron Reefman. however, if you want colorful, fast growing sps' skip leds!!!!!

 

[asid61]

for the leds guys....why is Divers Den still using MH? leds are great for leathers, just ask Ron Reefman. however, if you want colorful, fast growing sps' skip leds!!!!!

Yes, because there is so much evidence for that.
MH, from what I've read, are only slightly better than a valinna led combo for growth.
However, full-spectrum led arrays are better growth-wise than MH, both in science and reality. And the colors are very good too.
My guess that the Den uses MH is because they don't want to upgrade due to cost, and they don't want to risk losing corals through bleaching. The latter is easy to solve, but the Den doesn't wan't to risk it.

 

[kissman]

for the leds guys....why is Divers Den still using MH? leds are great for leathers, just ask Ron Reefman. however, if you want colorful, fast growing sps' skip leds!!!!!

The bigger question is if you are so happy running MH why are you poking around in a thread about LED's?

I don't want to have to replace the bulbs every 6 months. MH are nice and a lot of people still use them however they will heat my 55g tank up to much. I like the idea of cool running LED's and there are plenty of tanks that are successful running LED's

 

[Newsmyrna80]

I've been running the Orphek Atlantik for 2 months. The color in a Montipora is already coming back after completely fading from T5s. The nice thing about the Atlantik is the programming options for various needs. It also has an acclimation program to gradually get the corals used to LED without burning them.

 

[Khemul]

for the leds guys....why is Divers Den still using MH?

I never did get this logic. Who cares what Diver's Den uses? It doesn't prove anything.They could use incandescents if they wanted too, still wouldn't matter on whether a different form of lighting works.


There is an interesting double standard in lighting. If a person tries LEDs and loses corals, it confirms to them that all LEDs are junk and don't work. So following that logic, if someone lost corals under T5 or MH then it proves all T5's and MH's are junk and incapable of supporting corals? Nope, we'd blame the user and suggest they fix something. So, why the difference? We can claim it is because LED are unproven, but then that ignores the inconvenient fact that people are successfully using them.

 

[deepseadan]

Hey, he killed a few corals and it's the light's fault. It couldn't be he made a mistake could it? We are all just growing sps and lps corals under an led illusion. They really aren't growing, the tank is shrinking due to the cooler temperatures! :rollface::lol2:

Ron reefman, been wondering this, do you own or work for a company that deals with reef LEDs?

I continually wonder when reading everyone's positive experiences with LEDs if the posters are truly led users or companies in disguise. All you need is an email address to get another identity.

Anyways, I've had every type of lighting technology over my reefs in the last 16 years, all have been decent except LEDs. Can't imagine what I could have possibly been doing wrong. I followed all the tricks and advice, and still no luck. I've found a coral can bleach from to much light or not enough, so I don't buy the whole "LEDs are cooking" the coral.

Kissman, one more thing and don't take this the wrong way, but after taking part in your other thread titled "help with sps color" which had 539 posts, I probably wouldn't go led if I were you. They will add even more instability to your reef. If you had sps issues with t5's, trust me, you will really struggle with LEDs. And to your comment on $120 bulbs every year, you will still save money since LEDs are so darn expensive to start and my ai's, and ecoxotics both had LEDs go bad almost immediately. I do disagree with your time period of one year though, I would change your t5's every 9 months at least.

 

[Ron Reefman]

for the leds guys....why is Divers Den still using MH? leds are great for leathers, just ask Ron Reefman. however, if you want colorful, fast growing sps' skip leds!!!!!

And the Georgia Aquarium only uses Instant Ocean salt, so why do any of us question that? We should all be using Instant Ocean.

Dude, I don't question that MH's work great. I used them for years and my corals grew just fine. I understand you had issues and you blame the leds. That's your prerogative. But you can't tell me, or any of a thousand other people growing corals very well with leds, that leds don't work. You are whistling in the wind my friend!

Ron reefman, been wondering this, do you own or work for a company that deals with reef LEDs?

I continually wonder when reading everyone's positive experiences with LEDs if the posters are truly led users or companies in disguise. All you need is an email address to get another identity.

Anyways, I've had every type of lighting technology over my reefs in the last 16 years, all have been decent except LEDs. Can't imagine what I could have possibly been doing wrong. I followed all the tricks and advice, and still no luck. I've found a coral can bleach from to much light or not enough, so I don't buy the whole "LEDs are cooking" the coral.

You are kidding right? Seriously? OK, for the record, I've been retired for 2 years now. For 15 years before that I owned a home repair and property maintenance company. And before that, for 20 years I worked in sales and marketing for a Fortune 50 company involved in the computer industry.

My passion here has to do with the fact that until very recently, leds were far from ideal as reef lights and they were crazy expensive... like 2 to 3 times what MH & t5 fixtures sell for (and many still are). It's only been since dimmers and full spectrum colors have been available that I feel leds have been 'good enough' to use for reef lighting. And through a thread here on RC, in this very forum, I learned about quality made led fixtures with many very nice features that cost about the same as good MH or t5 fixtures. So I bought some new led fixtures just as they were being introduced back in Nov 2012. Since that time they have worked perfectly while running 24/7 and my corals (yes CHSUB) all my corals leathers, hammers, bubbles, birdsnest, chalices... softies, lps and sps, are all growing as well as they did under MH & t5.

 

[Ron Reefman]

for the leds guys....why is Divers Den still using MH? leds are great for leathers, just ask Ron Reefman. however, if you want colorful, fast growing sps' skip leds!!!!!

Were did that come from? Ask me about leathers? I don't understand, care to explain?

 

[kissman]

Kissman, one more thing and don't take this the wrong way, but after taking part in your other thread titled "help with sps color" which had 539 posts, I probably wouldn't go led if I were you. They will add even more instability to your reef. If you had sps issues with t5's, trust me, you will really struggle with LEDs. And to your comment on $120 bulbs every year, you will still save money since LEDs are so darn expensive to start and my ai's, and ecoxotics both had LEDs go bad almost immediately. I do disagree with your time period of one year though, I would change your t5's every 9 months at least.

I appreciate your input here and in my other thread, but after redoing my tank with all new rock and taking out the DSB and replaceing it with a 1"sand bed. The T5's were not the problem with my tank. I believe it was nutrients in the sand bed after how much black crap i pulled out with the sand, or the Xenia taking over my tank. I have read some things about Xenia and their chemical warfare. I love the T5's but I want to upgrade my fixture I am just not happy with the Nova Extreme Pro and I wish i had bought the ATI fixture in reality. Since I am unhappy with it I want to upgrade to newer and better technology. My tank is balanced better than it ever has been. Since I restarted my tank in March, I have already grown more purple coralline algae than I did in 10 years before, lol!

 

[mordibv]

I appreciate your input here and in my other thread, but after redoing my tank with all new rock and taking out the DSB and replaceing it with a 1"sand bed. The T5's were not the problem with my tank. I believe it was nutrients in the sand bed after how much black crap i pulled out with the sand, or the Xenia taking over my tank. I have read some things about Xenia and their chemical warfare. I love the T5's but I want to upgrade my fixture I am just not happy with the Nova Extreme Pro and I wish i had bought the ATI fixture in reality. Since I am unhappy with it I want to upgrade to newer and better technology. My tank is balanced better than it ever has been. Since I restarted my tank in March, I have already grown more purple coralline algae than I did in 10 years before, lol!

I am thinking of switching from ati pm to a ai hydra units . To the OP I can understand how hard a choice this can be . I have only tried Pacific Sun and Sunbrite leds with mixed success.
I have seen led's grow SPS but have noticed shading issues underneath branches , brown outs taking forever to recover .Coloration shifts .etc.
Never noticed tanks grow a lot of coralline with leds from an initial set up unless the tank used a different form of light .
The best Z n p + chalice collection in my area uses only radions g1 leds .My z n p's are 1/4 the size of his .
Is it his water quality ?he uses gfo n biweekly water changes yet has a High phos of (.14 Hanna checker) compared to my 0.0 reading .
I cant totally agree that leds will last . Seen just as many emitter failures n power supply failures that reset that high initial cost of investment not to mention livestock losses when some units don't perform up to expectations whether it was the wrong choice in leds emitters or user error .
I just picked up a ALC module a month or two back for my reefkeeper .Its sad it doesn't work with a hydra unit .
I vote for yes to the upgrade if you are not a stickhead and no unless u can use enough leds to cover the spread to reduce shadowing provided u pick a unit with good spectrums .
Good luck with your choice .