Should I carbon dose?

[Bill Nye]

I have been having problems with cyano for about two months and I'm wondering if I should carbon dose.

Some background:

My tank is about 7 months old. I have been testing Nitrate (salifert) and Phosphorus (Hanna) religiously and have never registered a reading for nitrate since the cycle and I change my GFO when I see phosphates rise above .03.

The cyano started when my RODI filters went bad so I was lazy and used distilled water from the market for about 3 weeks. My tank almost crashed and I started getting cyano badly. I have been doing my weekly water changes and suctioning out as much as I can each time. Finally I am starting to see some results and the cyano is getting better but still comes back on the rockwork every week.

My SPS are doing pretty well growing and looking decent (other than a pearlberry which grows but is tan) but my ALK consumption post cyano is still lower than before it started.

Should I dose carbon?

Thank you

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Many have reported an increase in cyano with the start of carbon dosing. If you are seeing a decrease in the cyano just keep doing what you have been doing. Keep no3 and po4 low, keep alk up and stable. Increase water flow. Red slime remover has worked well for me in the past. Sounds like your tank might new on the younger side? If so it's a normal part of the tank cyle and maturing to maybe have a cyano outbreak.

 

[jroovers]

If your nitrates are 0, why start carbon dosing? As DesertReefT4r said, you might make your cyano worse by starting to carbon dose, and if your nitrates are already 0, there isn't much point...

 

[toothman]

Not sure which hanna you have but the ppm model does not seem to test as well and the ppb model, I have both. My ppm seemed to always test 0.0 and the ppb would give a higher reading.

phosphate/nitrate imbalance will cause cyano. You need to have some nitrate. and yes carbon dosing will cause more cyano. I would do a good gravel wash, water change and consider adding some sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate as a bonus will also lower your phosphate. I try to achieve Nitrate 2-4 phos .02-.06. Fauna marin makes some great bacteria additives that will hopefully overtake cyano. Fauna marin bacto blend.

Carbon dosing basically removes nitrate very effectively and some phos, if your nitrate is already 0 not really sure why, it is hard to get 0 nitrate with out carbon dosing. Not that I would ever want my tank to have 0 nitrate. Possibly under feeding tank.

If you want to start carbon dosing that is a long story and difficult road, but done correctly can work better than any other method in my opinion.

I have tested store distilled water and it tests better than my ro/di, so do not think that was the cause, possibly if you used spring water.

Can you post a picture of your tank.

 

[Joel_155]

What the folks above me said. Don't start car on dosing with a nitrate reading of zero. I would fix the room filters and up the water change schedule and it should fix itself

 

[Spslvr]

Not sure which hanna you have but the ppm model does not seem to test as well and the ppb model, I have both. My ppm seemed to always test 0.0 and the ppb would give a higher reading.

phosphate/nitrate imbalance will cause cyano. You need to have some nitrate. and yes carbon dosing will cause more cyano. I would do a good gravel wash, water change and consider adding some sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate as a bonus will also lower your phosphate. I try to achieve Nitrate 2-4 phos .02-.06. Fauna marin makes some great bacteria additives that will hopefully overtake cyano. Fauna marin bacto blend.

Carbon dosing basically removes nitrate very effectively and some phos, if your nitrate is already 0 not really sure why, it is hard to get 0 nitrate with out carbon dosing. Not that I would ever want my tank to have 0 nitrate. Possibly under feeding tank.

If you want to start carbon dosing that is a long story and difficult road, but done correctly can work better than any other method in my opinion.

I have tested store distilled water and it tests better than my ro/di, so do not think that was the cause, possibly if you used spring water.

Can you post a picture of your tank.

toothman do you have any literature I can read regarding cyano being caused by a po4/ no3 imbalance?

 

[toothman]

http://reefsanctuary.com/forum/index.php?threads/cyano-control-via-nitrate-dosing.89645/page-4

Not sure if you can post this apology if not, just trying to help. It may not be the most scholarly read but from personal experience you need to respect the redfield ratio and have nitrate in tank to keep a good balance. Again bacterial additive, also check mg low mg can really slow down coraline algae.

I personally have used sodium nitrate, but prefer zeostart which is loaded with nitrate.

 

[jroovers]

If you want to start carbon dosing that is a long story and difficult road, but done correctly can work better than any other method in my opinion.

Carbon dosing is not difficult IMO, biopellets are ridiculously easy to use. You just have to bring them online incrementally, starting with a small amount. That said, you still need to ask yourself why carbon dose if your nitrates are 0. Something to consider if you increase your bioload and up your feedings though.

 

[Bill Nye]

Thank you for all the responses.

The reason I am thinking about carbon dosing even though my nutrients are very low is that the Cyano must be absorbing them thus lowering my numbers when I test. Cyano wouldn't be growing if there was nothing for it to feed on.

Also my pearlberry acro has blue tips but the rest of the body is tan. I am guessing that this means there are excess nutrients available causing it to tan. All of my other acros (red planet, lime in the sky, bonsai, frogskin, myagi tort etc etc) are decently colored so I'm not sure why the pearlberry is the odd man out.

For those asking my Hanna test kit is the Phosphorus ULR checker so it is the more accurate of the two. I test my phosphate often and haven't seen a reading above .04 since the cycle.

It is interesting I have never had detectable nitrates and my phoshates are low and the cyano continues. I do 15 percent water changes and blow my rocks off/suck up cyano/clean my skimmer every week.

I am wondering if my tank is now exiting the "uglies" phase since it is only 7 months old. The cyano is finally receding and also changing form. It used to be very slimy and aggressive and now its more like a velvet covering the rock that is easy to suck off. I started my tank with Dry Pukani from BRS so I have heard it will release nutrients for a while. Maybe thats why it is mostly on my rocks since it is soaking up what is being released?

 

[Joel_155]

Keep in mind that carbon dosing can cause cyano outbreaks. If you overdose cyano will pick up the excess carbon

 

[jroovers]

The reason I am thinking about carbon dosing even though my nutrients are very low is that the Cyano must be absorbing them thus lowering my numbers when I test. Cyano wouldn't be growing if there was nothing for it to feed on.

I wouldn't really think that cyano is using that much nutrient, it can subsist on little to nothing... I would not incorporate BP into your system because you are assuming that once you get rid of the cyano, there will need to be something else there to absorb the nutrients... its not like growing chaeto and harvesting as a form of nutrient export.

Also my pearlberry acro has blue tips but the rest of the body is tan. I am guessing that this means there are excess nutrients available causing it to tan. All of my other acros (red planet, lime in the sky, bonsai, frogskin, myagi tort etc etc) are decently colored so I'm not sure why the pearlberry is the odd man out.

Pearlberry can be hard to colour up, and can take a very long time to come around. Flow, lighting, etc. can also have an impact on a coral... if the rest of your corals have good colours, why change? Unless you are some kind of SPS savant, chances are that you are never going to have all of your SPS looking 100% all of the time, at the same time. In a perfect world maybe, but IME things don't work like that.

For those asking my Hanna test kit is the Phosphorus ULR checker so it is the more accurate of the two. I test my phosphate often and haven't seen a reading above .04 since the cycle.

It is interesting I have never had detectable nitrates and my phoshates are low and the cyano continues. I do 15 percent water changes and blow my rocks off/suck up cyano/clean my skimmer every week.

I am wondering if my tank is now exiting the "uglies" phase since it is only 7 months old. The cyano is finally receding and also changing form. It used to be very slimy and aggressive and now its more like a velvet covering the rock that is easy to suck off. I started my tank with Dry Pukani from BRS so I have heard it will release nutrients for a while. Maybe thats why it is mostly on my rocks since it is soaking up what is being released?

Cyano is subborn. Your tank is young so your troubles are not unexpected. If the cyano is changing and receding, I would stay the course and keep up your routine... as noted above, adding BP may actually exacerbate your cyano problem. If you do bring some online, start with a very very small amount (especially if you have never had detectable nitrates - since BP are for nitrate reduction first and foremost, your potential approach here is still somewhat confusing to me).

 

[rovster]

Thank you for all the responses.

The reason I am thinking about carbon dosing even though my nutrients are very low is that the Cyano must be absorbing them thus lowering my numbers when I test. Cyano wouldn't be growing if there was nothing for it to feed on.

Also my pearlberry acro has blue tips but the rest of the body is tan. I am guessing that this means there are excess nutrients available causing it to tan. All of my other acros (red planet, lime in the sky, bonsai, frogskin, myagi tort etc etc) are decently colored so I'm not sure why the pearlberry is the odd man out.

For those asking my Hanna test kit is the Phosphorus ULR checker so it is the more accurate of the two. I test my phosphate often and haven't seen a reading above .04 since the cycle.

It is interesting I have never had detectable nitrates and my phoshates are low and the cyano continues. I do 15 percent water changes and blow my rocks off/suck up cyano/clean my skimmer every week.

I am wondering if my tank is now exiting the "uglies" phase since it is only 7 months old. The cyano is finally receding and also changing form. It used to be very slimy and aggressive and now its more like a velvet covering the rock that is easy to suck off. I started my tank with Dry Pukani from BRS so I have heard it will release nutrients for a while. Maybe thats why it is mostly on my rocks since it is soaking up what is being released?

Similar experience to me. Pukani start up, low nutrients, never read nitrates, etc. Sounds like my tank. It took about 6-7 months for that nasty brown snot stuff to finally go away. I am currently dealing with a little cyano but its not terrible. From first hand experience I have noticed that the cyano is worse when the nitrate is 0 and when I get my nitrates readable it gets better. Now I'm dealing with nitrates too high and phos is 0 so the cyano is back. Again not terrible but there. I do believe a lot has to do with nutrient balance.

I do carbon dose, but I have a pretty large bioload and I'm still going to add more fish, but my carbon "dose" is about a third of what is typical for my total volume.

My advice is to slowly start dosing some nitrate and see what happens. Be careful and don't chase those nitrate kits. Just start with "x" amount daily and after a few days test and see where you are. Keep upping the dose until you see either positive (or negative) results and go from there. Its very safe. I use Sodium Nitrate. Its cheap as heck. Some use Potasium nitrate, and there are products like ZeoStart and Fluorish that are heavy in the nitrate.

 

[Bill Nye]

double post

 

[Bill Nye]

I wouldn't really think that cyano is using that much nutrient, it can subsist on little to nothing... I would not incorporate BP into your system because you are assuming that once you get rid of the cyano, there will need to be something else there to absorb the nutrients... its not like growing chaeto and harvesting as a form of nutrient export.



Pearlberry can be hard to colour up, and can take a very long time to come around. Flow, lighting, etc. can also have an impact on a coral... if the rest of your corals have good colours, why change? Unless you are some kind of SPS savant, chances are that you are never going to have all of your SPS looking 100% all of the time, at the same time. In a perfect world maybe, but IME things don't work like that.



Cyano is subborn. Your tank is young so your troubles are not unexpected. If the cyano is changing and receding, I would stay the course and keep up your routine... as noted above, adding BP may actually exacerbate your cyano problem. If you do bring some online, start with a very very small amount (especially if you have never had detectable nitrates - since BP are for nitrate reduction first and foremost, your potential approach here is still somewhat confusing to me).

Thanks for the response.

The pearlberry was browned out when I got it and only recently started showing intense blue tips. Its been growing the whole time but always brownish in color.

I guess I was expecting cyano to have a stronger ability to remove nutrients than it actually does.

Similar experience to me. Pukani start up, low nutrients, never read nitrates, etc. Sounds like my tank. It took about 6-7 months for that nasty brown snot stuff to finally go away. I am currently dealing with a little cyano but its not terrible. From first hand experience I have noticed that the cyano is worse when the nitrate is 0 and when I get my nitrates readable it gets better. Now I'm dealing with nitrates too high and phos is 0 so the cyano is back. Again not terrible but there. I do believe a lot has to do with nutrient balance.

I do carbon dose, but I have a pretty large bioload and I'm still going to add more fish, but my carbon "dose" is about a third of what is typical for my total volume.

My advice is to slowly start dosing some nitrate and see what happens. Be careful and don't chase those nitrate kits. Just start with "x" amount daily and after a few days test and see where you are. Keep upping the dose until you see either positive (or negative) results and go from there. Its very safe. I use Sodium Nitrate. Its cheap as heck. Some use Potasium nitrate, and there are products like ZeoStart and Fluorish that are heavy in the nitrate.

Its been somewhat frustrating the past month especially but I feel like I'm finally winning the battle. At first I was sure it was the sand bed causing the problem and almost tore it out. My last two tanks have been bare bottom and I never got cyano.

A question about nitrate dosing..what level should I be shooting for? I've seen people talk about 5 ppm being desirable but that seems pretty high to me. I think I'm going to try to start feeding 3 times a day more consistently. I have been so focused on keeping the tank clean its going to be hard to get myself to do the opposite.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

I wouldn't really think that cyano is using that much nutrient, it can subsist on little to nothing... I would not incorporate BP into your system because you are assuming that once you get rid of the cyano, there will need to be something else there to absorb the nutrients... its not like growing chaeto and harvesting as a form of nutrient export.



Pearlberry can be hard to colour up, and can take a very long time to come around. Flow, lighting, etc. can also have an impact on a coral... if the rest of your corals have good colours, why change? Unless you are some kind of SPS savant, chances are that you are never going to have all of your SPS looking 100% all of the time, at the same time. In a perfect world maybe, but IME things don't work like that.



Cyano is subborn. Your tank is young so your troubles are not unexpected. If the cyano is changing and receding, I would stay the course and keep up your routine... as noted above, adding BP may actually exacerbate your cyano problem. If you do bring some online, start with a very very small amount (especially if you have never had detectable nitrates - since BP are for nitrate reduction first and foremost, your potential approach here is still somewhat confusing to me).

Testify bother. Think you hit the nail square in the head with all that.

 

[rovster]

Thanks for the response.

The pearlberry was browned out when I got it and only recently started showing intense blue tips. Its been growing the whole time but always brownish in color.

I guess I was expecting cyano to have a stronger ability to remove nutrients than it actually does.



Its been somewhat frustrating the past month especially but I feel like I'm finally winning the battle. At first I was sure it was the sand bed causing the problem and almost tore it out. My last two tanks have been bare bottom and I never got cyano.

A question about nitrate dosing..what level should I be shooting for? I've seen people talk about 5 ppm being desirable but that seems pretty high to me. I think I'm going to try to start feeding 3 times a day more consistently. I have been so focused on keeping the tank clean its going to be hard to get myself to do the opposite.

Personally I like it around 5 but anywhere between just readable and 10 I'm perfectly fine with. If it goes beyond 10 I back off the nitrate dosing and just let the tank do its thing. Not sure if I mentioned it above, but I've had it as high as 25 and didn't notice anything, no algae, no more than usual cyano. I see more cyano when nutrients are low.

Depending on who you listen to, you've got some that recommend keeping nitrate under 2, and some say 5-10 is good. I don't think it matters as long as its consistent.

My pearlberry is also very stubborn FWIW. I have had some alk issues lately and it seems to have taken a hit from that, but even when things were good and I had other pieces looking amazing, my pearlberry was just OK looking. It looked better when I first took it out of the bag after shipping, LOL!

 

[Big E]

I wouldn't carbon dose in your situation.

I'm going to echo Jroovers here somewhat.......

Just let the cyano burn itself out over time..........keep up with your current maintenance....the only thing different is to baste/blow off the cyano just before lights out.

Also make sure your skimmer is getting at whatever comes from your overflow first hand.

All tanks go through these minor disturbances ............the people that are patient will be rewarded....those that try to throw in chemicals, bacteria, ect. end up doing more harm than good.

If the colors are good it's pointless to chase numbers. As your Pearlberry grows it will color up. As mentioned, sometimes they are tough to color up and can go through months of off coloring.