Sick Fuzzy - need advice

[seahorsedreams]

I've just finished up a few nights shifts, so forgive me if I miss a couple of things here in your posts.


This is what I would do given your situation.

I would get him out of the prazi. Fast. Do you have a lot of aeration going on in the QT?

I would start with new saltwater water and do a hypo. It may not not be the treatment for the original problem, but it will help with the current work of breathing he's experiencing.

Start lowering the temp. Not so fast that it stresses him out and compromises him further, but I've always found lowering the temp gives me more time to think.

Get the vitamins in his water. Even if it's not a nutritional deficit, it will boost immunity. This stuff is well studied in food aquaculture. I love my vitamin C. I keep it fresh, refrigerated and ready to roll. I use Brightwell Aquatics Vitamarin-C. I've had awesome results by adding this to the tanks of sick fish.

Get some airlines in there. Not so much that he is blowing around (again, the stress factor), but saturate that water with oxygen the best you can.

So, my plan would be:

• Get him out of the Prazi now.
• Aerate the water more.
• Lower the salinity.
• Start to bring the temp down to a lower, stable number.
• Get the vitamins in the water.
• Buy live food.

That video would be helpful to see what level of distress we are talking here.

 

[Mental1]

I will get another video tonight. I do have air going and the temp is lower. I did turn off the air this morning because it was too much and he was stressing but I bought some stuff today so I can manage the bubbles better. I can get the prozi out easily but it will take at least 24 hours. I will drop temp to what? I have live food. I will order the brightwell -- am in the sticks so not many around here carry it.

Thanks Renee! Hugs to you from the fuzzy!

 

[namxas]

Get the temp down to at least 74*F, but a bit lower won't hurt the fish. The lower the temp, the more slowly pathogens (esp. bacteria) reproduce.

 

[Mental1]

Okay -- checked system setting and found that the temp was set at 80.5. I forgot that I had raised the temp over the winter on the system to keep it at 79. What that means is there was no temp spike. Have turned system setting down.

Did a 30% water change, put in carbon, dropped temp to 78, lowered salinity a little. Got the vit. c coming tomorrow.

Here's a video I just took with a flip camera -- sorry for the quality - I guess I need to have the camera further away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwKeW3TbZQ0

 

[seahorsedreams]

erf...... how long have you had him? He's not new, I know, but how old?

Have you ever managed an uncycled tank before? Did I get that right that the QT is uncycled?

What was the salinity? How low did you bring it?

 

[Mental1]

I have had the fuzzy for 18 months. Yes, it is an uncycled QT. I just had a clown go through a 28 day treatment. I test constantly for ammonia and have binder on hand. I do daily 10% water changes. The salinity was 1.026 and it is now 1.024. This is how he has looked since I put him in the QT -- his condition is unchanged.

 

[seahorsedreams]

Was just making sure on the uncycled thing. As you know, they can be hard, but not impossible to manage.

What was up with the clown? Was he ever in the same water system as the lion?

I would personally drop that salinity down to a good 1.020 (actually, I would drop it down further, but for some reason it makes people nervous).

Increased work of breathing can indeed be caused by parasites, but it also can be caused by environmental influences and as well as internal non-parasitic ones.

 

[Mental1]

The first week is hardest with the uncycled tank but I have the ammonia test strips that I use multiple times a day and with daily religious water changes it is manageable. I did have a sponge that I was cooking in the sump but unfortunately I left it there too long and I was afraid it was more of an ammonia/nitrate factory than a help so I did not use it.

The clown had a funky looking white fuzzy spot which I thought was parasites. I put her in qt with prozipro for 28 days and the fuzzy white stuff went away. But there was still a lump. It looked like it was shrinking so I put her back in the DT. The white fuzzy stuff is coming back and yes they are all part of the same system. But her breathing, eating, poop and activity -- everything was normal. So very different symptoms from the fuzzy.

 

[Mental1]

Here's a poor picture of the clown. They are so wiggly!

 

[seahorsedreams]

I would put the clown in the "Possible Clues" bin. Not necessarily a causative factor, but a related one.

 

[Mental1]

Agreed - it is all a mystery at this point. The fuzzy is hanging in there -- still looks about the same -- gasping. Wish I could do more - feel really helpless. Will drop salinity a bit more today, temp too.

 

[seahorsedreams]

Keep a look out for Ick.

 

[Mental1]

Will do -- nothing so far. I do have it in the system. Down to 1.022 and 76.1 degrees. Still looks the same. Vitamin C coming this afternoon and some ghosties. Plus I have the mollies. Have not tried any live foods yet. Thought I would do the ghost shrimp first. I can drop the salinity to 1.09 if you think I should. That will stop any ich from catching hold.

 

[Snausy]

Glad to see you have some real help now Sherri. Wishing your little guy the best and reading along. I learn at other people's expense as much as possible so it's not me beating my head into the wall all the time. :headwallblue:

Good Luck!

 

[Mental1]

Thanks Snauzy. But he has just become very agitated -- really having a hard time breathing. This is not good -- what I am doing is not helping. Are you sure I should have taken him off of the prozipro?

 

[namxas]

Renee and I were discussing this and she did make the point that there really shouldn't have been any way for the fish to become "flukey", so the prazi probably wasn't doing anything for the fish.

Methylene blue may soothe the fish's gills, but will make it hard to see the fish at the proper dosage.

 

[seahorsedreams]

Thanks Snauzy. But he has just become very agitated -- really having a hard time breathing. This is not good -- what I am doing is not helping. Are you sure I should have taken him off of the prazipro?

What is the flow like in there now? If he's agitated, he's probably lacking O2.

I'm not sure of anything Sherri, not when we have NO idea what is going on. That's why I said "This is what I would do". That doesn't translate into "This is what is going to fix your fish".

But as Greg said, flukes would not be something I'd suspect in a 2 year old fish, if there were no fish added to the system recently.
Ick never surprises me anymore, but I would suspect you'd see the tell tale spots by now.

You could always put him in some Furan 2. I've found that antibiotic is pretty benign on a stressed fish.

Are you sure there isn't any ammonia or nitrite in that tank? That causes agitation.

What I'm suggesting is not dealing with the primary cause, just the life threatening symptoms, which is increased work of breathing. The things I have suggested will help him with gas exchange and support his immunity so he can fight.

A treatment plan for the original issue still needs to be figured out.

 

[Stumped]

Here's a poor picture of the clown. They are so wiggly!

Looks like your clown has Lymphocystis

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2029830

 

[Mental1]

Okay ... here's another theory. He's fat. I have overfed him. A reefing friend came over and said he is not sick at all. His color is wonderful, he reacts if you wave your hand at the tank, and he is bloated. I have simply overfed him and he needs a big poo. He said to put him back in the tank; that he is better off in the main system. He looks a lot better this morning.

So I have to figure out how to feed the wrasse and the filefish in that tank without feeding the fuzzy at the same time. I can eliminate the jumbo mysis and just feed the pe mysis for them and some other food. Maybe just feed those two every other day.

Oh -- and you're right -- I am sorry -- I just panicked. I know you said it was a treatment plan not a cure. I did add some vitamin c. I will do a big water change this morning and if he still looks good at the end of the day consider putting him back in the DT. And I don't think there is any ammonia in the tank yet -- he hasn't been eating so no pooping so nothing really to create a big spike yet other than him being in there. And I have been doing lots of water changes.

Stumped -- in most cases the lympho shows up differently -- it usually starts on the fins and it is not usually one big lump. That's what I have read about it anyway. I guess it could just be a weird presentation of the disease but then why would the white fuzzy stuff go away in prozi and just leave a lump behind? It's a weird thing for sure.

 

[seahorsedreams]

Sorry, but I don't prescribe to the same theory as your friend. Fat fish don't gill like that because they need to poop.


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