Sick Seahorse...HELP!!

[kkpatterson]

My male seahorse isn't doing well. The tip of his tail looks damaged, he isn't moving around much, and isn't eating much. Does anyone have any suggestions? He is pregnant, but this is his third time, and not his typical behavior. This has been going on for about three days. Help, help, help!!!

 

[ann83]

Do you know how the tip of the tail got damaged? Was he injured by something (crab, clam, powerhead intake)? Or do you think its tail rot? What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, water temperature)? Has anything changed in the aquarium recently (example: added something)? Is he having any bouancy issues (floating or sinking)? What have you been feeding him and what does "not eating much" mean to you?
I would definately move him to a bare bottom quarantine tank where you can more closely monitor his environment and how much he is eating. Other suggestions will come from answering the questions I asked. Also, a pic would be helpful.

 

[kkpatterson]

The tail was damaged a few months ago by a crab (immediately removed), and healed nicely, but it now looks injured again. My husband checks the water regularly, and though I don't know the exact details, I do know that there hasn't been any fluctuation to speak of. The temeratureis 77.5-78.2. We did add a sponge last Saturday, and Kyle was using antibiotics to get rid of some algae, which we have done before with no problem, but have stopped as of yesterday. No bouancy issues. He eats frozen brine shrimp, with cyclops occasionally added. I feed them one cube twice a day, and he usually goes right after it, and eats several pieces immediately, then grazes for the next 30-45 minutes. Now he doesn't go after the food, but if I put some right in front of him, he will eat a piece or two. I will move him this evening, and will send a picture then, as well. Thank you SO MUCH!!!!!
Kimberly

 

[ann83]

I forgot to ask an important question: What species of seahorse do you have?
Also, I can see two things that you can change right now for sure to help him out:
One, assuming he is a large seahorse and not a dwarf, try switching him over to frozen mysis shrimp. Frozen brine shrimp doesn't have as much nutrition to it and is high fiber, and since seahorses have a very simple digestive system, they barely get anything out of the brine before it passes through their system. If he won't eat frozen mysis, the next best thing is to get him on enriched live ghost/glass shrimp (freshwater or saltwater, whatever you can get), and then once he is eating well again, try to move him over to the frozen mysis. Getting him off the brine is especially important, since when he isn't eating much, everything he eats needs to be packed with nutrition and good fats.
Two, assuming he is a tropical seahorse, bring the temperature down slowly in the quarantine tank, and in the display tank, to 74 degrees or less. Don't decrease the temp by more than 4 degrees in 24 hours. In the quarantine tank, it would actually be best to get the temp to 70 degrees or less since he seems to be suffering from something. The bacteria seahorses are most succeptible to are more aggressive and mutate into more dangerous strains at temperatures higher than 74 degrees, so you want to keep them lower. If your seahorse is a subtropical or temperate seahorse (whitei, breviceps, potbelly, etc.), you are going to want to slowly bring the temperature even lower.
Also, try to get your husband to tell you what the water parameters are. It is good that there were no fluctuations, but a small amount of ammonia or nitrite over a long peroid of time can be just as dangerous, so you want to double check that both ammonia and nitrite are at zero in both the display and the quarantine tank. I know I am not supposed to mention other web sites on this web site, but in your circumstances, I really feel like you will have a better chance of saving your seahorse if you post a picture and tank details in the diseases and treatment forum on seahorse.org, there are a lot more people on there that have helped people through treatments like this.

 

[pledosophy]

To help I need the actual numbers of your parameters.

Also what antibiotics were you using for the alage removal. Where the parameter tests done before or after that? If after, how long after?

Is the seahorse hitching? A pic of the "wound" would be great, really help out to see if it is an injury or bacterial. Treatment is different for both.

I would also agree with Ann that you should try to swith foods to frozen mysis, try PE Mysis. If you can get to a health food store and soak the mysis in beta glucan before feeding that would be ideal for now.

What meds do you have on hand?

I can help you but I really need much more information.

 

[kkpatterson]

The antibiotics Erythromycin. They are eating Mysis (it's the babies that eat brine) He is hitching. The ph is 8.0 nitrite is 0.2 temp in 76.7. Nitrate is .25 As soon as I figure out how to attach a pic of his tail, I'll send it.

 

[kkpatterson]

I can't figure out how to attach a photo

 

[ann83]

Nitrite should be zero, and needs to be zero. Also, since you have detectable nitrites, I would find out what your ammonia is. Since you said there haven't been any fluctuations, that means that you have had detectable nitrite, and possibly ammonia, for a while. That could easily be your problem. Make sure that ammonia and nitrite in your quarantine tank are at zero and stay at zero.

 

[ann83]

Oh, and do a 50% water change in the main aquarium to get nitrite down to zero there as well. How long has your aquarium been set up? Have you added any new livestock in the last month or so that might have caused an ammonia spike?
Also, a methalyne blue bath is sometimes used to treat exposure to ammonia and nitrites, however, I have never done one, so I'm not sure about the proper dosage and length. You'd have to look that up.

 

[Fredfish]

The antibiotics Erythromycin

Antibiotics effect all bacteria and are either effective against gram negative or gram posative bacteria. This includes the bacteria that drive the nitrogen cycle.

This is why I never never treat my main tank with anti-biotics. This may well be why you have detectable nitrites and may have amonia.

Hope your horse turns out to be OK.

Fred.

P.S. I am glad you pay enough attention to your horses behavior to notice when something is not right. It probably helped you catch this early.

 

[Fredfish]

Sort of related to this thread is another reason I love my macro algae packed refugium. Macro algae is able to use several different forms of nitrogen including nitrites and [I think, but am not sure] amonia.

I never have detectable nitrogen in any form.

Fred

 

[kkpatterson]

Sick Seahorse...Help!!

Sick Seahorse...Help!!

He is worse. He is not eating and not hitching. Right now he is leaning against the back wall. He was not happy at all about being moved yesterday. Is there anything I can do to save him?
Kimberly

 

[kkpatterson]

Nitrates are back to zero.

 

[ann83]

What about nitrites? Nitrites and ammonia are more dangerous than nitrate. If you don't have an ammonia test, you should get one. Is his breathing rapid or labored? If it is, you might want to try the methalyne blue dip. Otherwise, just start with the triple sulfa and neomyacin treatment. Even if you can only find one, at least start with that one. The sooner you begin to treat him, the better chance you have of saving him.
Also, did you try live ghost shrimp or live mysis shrimp? If you absolultely can't get either of these locally and have to order them, you can feed enriched adult brine in the mean time. You have to get him eating or you are going to have to tube feed. Seahorses can't go long without food.
You can use something like amquel plus to keep the ammonia down in the isolation tank between the daily water changes.

 

[Fredfish]

Keeping him eating is important. If you can't find live ghost shrimp locally, seawaterexpress.com is a good mo source for live feed shrimp.

Fred

 

[kkpatterson]

How do you tube feed?
I just added some Prime to remove ammonia and detoxify nitrite and nitrate.

 

[pledosophy]

Added prime to what?

I would move the sehaorse to a hospital tank and drop the temp to 68F or below. DO not drop the temp more the 4 degrees per every 24 hours. The tank should be a bare bottom 10g with no biological or mechanical filtration. The antibiotics you will be using will kill off any bacterial that is used for biological filtration and other means of mechanical filtration such as carbon and UV's will remove the antibiotics from the water

Treatment with triple sulpha and neomycin has proven to be the most effective. There is a product called Neo3 available at seahorsesource.com that was developed specifically to be used in this application. If all you can get is the triple sulpha and the neomycin you will have to use a far great dose then what the package recommends for it to be effective against the disease. IME with the aquarium pharmasuticals brand I had to quadriple the dosage, dosing 1000mg initially then perform 50% water changes redosing 500mg after each water change for 10 days, however different manufactors require different dosages. Neo 3 is cheaper in the long run and has a better proven track record.

The proper dosage for Neomycin is 250mg per gallon of water, so for a 10g tank you are going to need an initial doe of 2500mg of neomycin. After you do the 50% daily WC you will need to add 1250 mg of neomycin to the hospital tank to replace what the wc has taken from the tank.

Erythromycin is a macrolide antibiotic active mainly on gram+ bacteria. Tail rot is most likely to be a gram- bacterial infection - as such it's not a good choice.

Unfortuantley by using antibiotics for algae control you have already exposed the bacteria your seahorse carries to antibiotics at a dose to low to be effective at killing it giving it some antibiotic resistance.

I'm sorry to say but this is going to be a very diffucult case to treat. USing the antibiotics has also killed off the beneficial bacteria that is used to filter the water. Often times vibrio infections are secondary to intial stressors such as poor water quaility. I'm not trying to come down on you, just really want to be clear that you should never put antibiotics into your display system, they should only be used in a hospital tank.

We'll be with you if you choose to treat this. We can help you along every step of the way. It's what we do, you just have to let us help you.

If you can find Triple Sulpha and Neomycin locally please tell us who the manufactor is and what the ingrediants are. Will likely look something like:

332mg Sodium Sulfathiazole
84 mg Sodium Sulfamethazine
84 mg Sodium Sulfacetamide.

Then we can help you with dosage.

As far as tube feeding, I'd really urge you to try live feeders first. Tube feeding is hard. It involved sedating the horse and using a syringe to inject the food through the snout and into the seahorse. There are tube feeding kits availabe at seahorsesource.com as well. It is not something I have ever done, but I can get you directions if you get there. I would not recommend tube feeding unless it has been more then 5 days since your seahorse last ate. I would try live feeders and live enriched brine first.

Did you get the beta glucan yet?

 

[kkpatterson]

I added Prime to the isolation tank. I do have a mechanical filter, but have removed the carbon pack. I have been using triple sulfa at the proper dose for 42 hours, and neomycin at the proper dose for 22 hours.
664 mg Sodium Sulfathiadole
168 mg Sodium Sulfamethazine
168 mg Sodium Sulfacetamide
API Pro Series

Neomycin is from a local store, Aqua-World, each cap is 500 mg Neomycin Sulfate

I'm searching for the live food and beta glucan today.

Thank you!!!!!!!!

 

[pledosophy]

So if your using a 10g hospital tank your using 5 pills of the neomycin right? I'd get out the phone book to find live ghost shrimp. Just call a bunch of LFS's, even fresh water only stores. Ask for fresh water ghost shrimp. Brine shrimp enriched with vitamins would be a second choice but IME some seahorse do not recognize brine as food.

Beta Glucan will be found at a human health food store. It's one of those crazy enrichments for those healthy people who like bran and stuff.

What are you running in the filter? What type of filter is it? Just want to double check all is well for you.

HTH

Wishing you the very best of luck. We are here when youneed something.

 

[kkpatterson]

The only ghost shrimp I can find are larger than my seahorses head. He won't eat brine, and the enriched mycis are what I've been feeding him. What do I do with the Beta Glucan?