Sick Watchman Goby

[saltyseaman]

I've had this Goby for at least 5 years. It has survived through all of the crap I have been through. Suddenly it is sick, and has been for about 3 weeks. It used to be a bright yellow with nice blue dots, but now, as the pictures show, it is fading and it's belly is shrinking.

It still eats like it always has. It is just as active as ever, even defending it's burrow. However, it is breathing heavily and has a swollen throat with some sort of growth. I've tried to capture this in a picture, but the goby isn't cooperating.

I've had a batch of cyano lately and tyhought that may be the culprit. All other water parameters are fine.

Is there any other information I can provide to help diagnose this?

Thanks ......

 

[saltyseaman]

Here's a really grainy close up of the growth. I'll try to get a better picture later. Also, the visible veins in the last few pictures are not normal.

 

[Claeth]

have you checked your orp or oxygen levels in the tank? That could be the culprit for both of your problems. Try running an airstone in the tank for a while, and see if it clears up.

 

[saltyseaman]

I don't have the equipment to test my ORP or Oxygen. However, I am pushing 20LPM through my protien skimmer (I assume some dissolved oxygen gets back into the display) and my refugium gravity feeds back into my display, causing a constant stream of bubbles and noticable microbubbles.

I have 7 other fish in the tank and they are all perfectly healthy (aside from a firefish that is getting picked on and has some tears in its fins. I can't catch it to get it out!).

In light of this, do you think that is may still be ORP or Oxygen?

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Claeth]

It could be..., but you may also want to look into your water source. I think that the cyano and the fish issue are related though, since the goby sifts the sand and could be digesting some cyano.

Many different types of silicates are added to drinking water sources for different reasons during the "filtering". While most of these are eliminated out of our drinking water, some still make it through.
If not properly filtered, you can easily introduce them, and make your tank a perfect breeding ground for cyano. The easiest way to remove the threat of that is to use Reverse Osmosis De-Ionized water, which is MUCH better than So-called "Spring water" which can be straight ground water that is simply taken from wells reaching all the way into the water table, unfiltered, and could very possibly have high levels of naturally found silicates or god knows what.
This is also why they believe that red tides happen so regularly in the gulf of mexico, due to water from the Mississippi being so high in silicates during different times of year.

are you using ro/di water? and if so, how long has it been since you changed your cartridges?

If not, here's your solutions.

Water flow- add some more powerheads and try to remove "dead zones" of little water flow in your tank.

Water changes- regularly (every 2 weeks 10-20% w/RO/DI water),

Aeration- think its enuf? double it! O2 tests are inexpensive and invaluable.

If possible, cut back on feedings of any frozen or high silicate foods held together with gelatin. Flake foods fed alone and in small quantities will give proper nutrition to most fish and leave little left behind for waste.

This should solve your issues with both the goby and the cyano, as well as thwart any other growing phosphate issues you may have.

 

[odyssey1]

This could be Tuberculosis all of the symptoms fit.

Symptoms: Emaciation, hollow belly, possibly sores.

Tuberculosis is caused by the bacterium Mycobacterium piscium. Fish infected with tuberculosis may become lethargic, hollow bellied, pale, show skin ulcers and frayed fins, have fin and scale loss, and loss of appetite. Yellowish or darker nodules may appear on the eyes or body and may deform the fish.
All fish species could be susceptible though some are more susceptible than others.

There is no absolute treatment. However the most effective treatment known for this disease is to treat with Kanamycin and Vitamin B-6 for 30 days. Kanamycin can be purchased at your local fish store. Liquid baby vitamins work well as Vitamin B-6 source. They are available at your local pharmacy. Add one drop per every 5 gallons of aquarium water during treatment.
If the treatment is ineffective, the best thing to do is destroy the infected fish.
If either unkempt conditions or over crowding are the suspected cause, correct the condition.
If this is the problem you will want to be careful handleing the fish because it can be spread to humans.

 

[alprazo]

It appears in several of the photos, especially the first to have a bruise under the right lateral jaw. Is this artifact from the photo, or something you have noticed? If so, you may be looking at an increased vascular in that area. The most commone reasons would be infection, injury and possibly tumor.

I would take him out of the water and examine him. If you notice an outward growth - I don't think there is much you can do. If a sore, I would try some minocycline or the Kanamycin mentioned earlier.

 

[saltyseaman]

Cleath - I was thinking the same thing, that the goby ingested some cyano and got sick from it.

Yes, I use RO/DI water. It is a 5 stage - Sediment, 2x Carbon, Membrane, DI. I have two inline TDS meters on it monitoring its performance. I have a 98% TDS rejection rate through the membrane and a 100% after the DI. I replaced the filters and the resin about two weeks ago. Before replacement I was getting 1 ppm TDS out of the DI stage

I have a 3600 GPH dart on a closed loop with 12" (1ft) of head providing current. I have a couple of 1" SeaSwirls that I will be hooking up this weekend, but right now it is just the 3600 GPH flowing through a 1.5" return. The current is so strong that there is a patch on the end of the aquarium where the sand has blown off to the point exposing the glass. Yet, I still have cyano on the sand sitting right next to that exposed glass. I have experienced this before in my previous aquarium, where there was obviously strong current (3x Tunze 6100s plus 2400 GPH from a return on a 6'x3'x20" aquarium) but the Cyano still grew. The increase current solution has never worked for me.

I have been negligent on water changes, I will admit. I will be starting them up again once my salt that I ordered finally arrives.

I didn't realize O2 tests where inexpensive. I will shop around and see what I can find.

I will also try the flake food solution. I was also considering getting some selcon and garlic to soak it in to boost immune systems. Hopefully my fish don't get to upset that their favorite brine and mysis combination has changed!

I run Phosban in a phosban reactor to remove phosphates. Phosphates are untraceable on my Salifert test kit.

Also, my drain from my tank runs directly into my 10" diameter 40" tall protien skimmer with two mesh-modded aquabee 2000/1 recirculation pumps (DIY) at a rate of 600 GPH. I'm only pushing 20 LPM though the pumps at the moment, but I have just ordered a new air pump that will bump that up to 40 LPM. It's a heck of a skimmer.

Thanks for the in-depth reply!


odyssey1 - The Goby is a bit lethargic, but not terribly or much more noticeably that normal. It is hollow bellied and pale, but it's fins and scales are in fine condition and it eats like it always has. There are also no yellowish or darker nodules appearing on the eyes or body, and it is not deformed. I'm not sure if I would say that the blotches on its skin are ulcers. They are only around the throat and appear to be a result of a growth in its throat (seen in picture 2) that has swollen to the point of being visible through the pale skin.

In light of this, would you still lean toward Tuberculosis and/or recomend the same treatment?


alprazo That may be a bruise, but it looks like it is the growth in its throat becoming visible through its pale skin. Does this sound like the fatal outward growth you mentioned?

I'll go pick up some Minocycline and Kanamycin.


Something else I should mention. I was using vinegar to spike my Kalkwasser. I seem to have added too much and had a bacteria bloom as a result of this, which clouded up my water. All of my parameters were fine during and after this. I have since ceased using it until my Goby looks better. Can anybody think of a connection there?


Thank you all for your help!

 

[odyssey1]

he could have a bacterial problem and also sometimes if they are un happy or feeling sick they will turn pale. Maybe try feeding him garlic since he still eats well to see if he improves. Take a turkey baster and feed him directly with fresh garlic from the grocery store.

 

[alprazo]

From the photos, my best diagnosis would be an oral tumor. From the photos there appears to be a definite vascular pattern and not necessarily vascular congestion see in an infection. Also in the front on photos, there appears to be a mid-line shift or deviation to the left, away from the affected area.

Not a Vet in any sense, just my best guess. I would still try Minocin. It has anti-inflammatory properties and some anti-tumor effects in lymphoma-like neoplasms. If solid tumor, which it probably is - no effect.

If the fish does perish, I would love to know what you found inside. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[saltyseaman]

odyssey1 Do you have a recommended dosage? I know what happens to me when I eat too much garlic .... and I would hate to see that happen to my fish!

alprazo I hope you are wrong too . If it does kick it and I can get it before my Brittle Star does, I can put it on ice packs or salt and send it to you to find out what's on the inside. I have no knowledge of what I would be looking at, and I couldn't bring myself to dissecting a fish that has been with me for over 5 years...

 

[Claeth]

i still think it could be a toxic effect from the cyano. do those water changes!!!!!!!

 

[alprazo]

How is the goby?

 

[saltyseaman]

He's alive and doing a little better. The swelling has gone down a bit, but he is still pale and there is still some swelling. I soak a couple of slivers of garlic about the size of a penny in with the food before I feed, and it appears to be helping. I haven't reverted to medication simply because I have been so busy that I haven't done the research, and the garlic seems to be working. The cyano is also on its way out, with just a few small patches left.

Thanks for the interest and previous help

 

[alprazo]

glad to hear it is doing better

 

[Percula9]

Whether the cyano is related to his condition I really don't know. But it would be a good idea to check the phosphate level. If you have phosphates then get a phosban reactor. I doubt he'll eat the garlic, but soak the food in the garlic. You can make your own garlic preparation by taking a whole garlic clove and crushing through a garlic press. Take crushed garlic and place in a blender with some pure water. Mix it up and put the preparation through a coffee filter. Soak food for 15-20 min then feed.

 

[saltyseaman]

Phosphates are undetectable on my Salifert test kit and I run phosban in a phosban reactor. The cyano that I have left is just two small patches about the size of half dollars.

He won't eat garlic, I've tried. Your method seems like a better idea, but the galic sliver soak method I've been using seems to be working. I soak it for 20 minutes with the food in salt water. I believe the garlic juices seep out through osmosis. I squeeze the slivers real well before feeding.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Percula9]

Good luck, sounds like he's on the road to recovery.