Sick yellow tang

[boca rat]

Had been in a HT for a couple of months after I was almost wiped out after ich/velvet attack. Moved him prematurely without thinking it through to a healthy frag tank with other fish as he didn't seem happy in the 55g HT.

Then realised to get him in the DT I would have to re QT/HT him so moved him back to a new 20g HT w/copper, along with two other fish, one of which was new from the LFS.

Tonight I see the tang has a lot of reddish color and he doesn't seem well at all.

The other two fish (big banggai, and a smallish angel (new)) both look fine,

Poor picture attached. ideas?

Thanks!

 

[snorvich]

Unfortunately the picture is not clear enough for me to suggest what problem, if any, the fish has. Please describe the behavior.

 

[boca rat]

Hey, generally lethargic is all. I saw a little of that before moving it to the frag tank (hence the move). Perked up immediately. Since the move back to HT, has been fine until today. I will try for a better pic but very hard so far. I have snapped a dozen and all look similar. If I turn flash on, colors go all out of whack and the tang looks like some kind of zombie fish! I guess I will try again first thing tomorrow with natural light.

Thanks for responding, much appreciated.

 

[afm32607]

The red might be from the copper irritating the fish.

Only use copper if it's sick....it sounds like you got rid of the ich. Don't submit fish to unnecessary copper really tough on them. No need to quarantine him if he's healthy in the frag tank.

 

[boca rat]

I did wonder if that might be it the first time. I think will put him back in the frag tank tonight and hope for the best.

I am still undecided as to whether I can deal with the hassle and heartache of QT tanks vs hassle and heartache of almost total wipeout again.

 

[boca rat]

afm, so for new fish, what do you do? if you don't treat w/copper they could be carrying it and introduce ich or worse into the DT, no? From what I read, a lot of fish carry this without symptoms.

 

[afm32607]

Sorry fort he delay. All fish carry it. It is always in the water. Ick is a breakdown of fishes immune system allowing the parasite to multiply and spread. If you have a quarantine tank 30 days or so in there without any symptoms is enough to be satisfied it's healthy. If you don't have a qt tank I'd look into fresh water dips.

I find that stress is generally what leads to illness. Otherwise healthy fish don't randomly get ick.

The problem with new fish is they'd dear go a long stressful malnourished process from the ocean to your tank that causes their immune system to break down and they get sick.

Usually it is not one fish gives the rest the disease like an std or something. More often the same environmental problems affect all fish at the same time.

Btw tangs are especially sensitive to copper medication.

 

[afm32607]

You are right though new fish may be sick and then you put them in tank and they seem to pass it on as they may be sick but haven't yet shown symptoms. But if you research it you will find that ich and marine velvet are almost always present in the system.

IMO it is the stress associated with the new addition that causes the systemwide break out as the increased number of parasites can take advantage of the stress of the fish.

Most marine parasites have a 4-6 week life cycle and die without a host in that time period. So, if you fish is healthy in qt for 4-6 weeks and the fish in display are not sick the you should be fine.

Copper treats the symptoms so the fish's immune system gets a chance to recover it shouldn't be used as a preventative.

 

[afm32607]

Sorry for multiple posts trying to help. If you haven't tried it go to wetwebmedia.com and see what they have to say bob fenner amd the crew over there are really helpful. Just make sure you use the search engine first.

 

[snorvich]

But if you research it you will find that ich and marine velvet are almost always present in the system.

Sorry, I do not agree.

 

[boca rat]

snorvich, can you offer more detail on why?

I put the tang back in the frag tank and he was looking fine the next morning. I am out of town for a week and will reintroduce him to the DT when I get back along with a gorgeous yellow eye Kole that the LFS is holding for me, hopefully to avoid a fight. Hopefully the yellow won't be an issue - when I got him with the purple they were literally snuggled up to each other in a bucket.

I don't think I can handle QT for 4-6 weeks if I can't eliminate ich/velvet by treating preventatively for copper due to side effects. I am hoping that as I went 10 years with no illness, I can go another 10......and yes I appreciate the holes in that argument. But it dawned on me that half the fun of the hobby is seeing a new fish, and then getting it into the DT in short order for immediate pleasure. Again, I see the holes in that argument.

One thing I did learn from this nightmare (prior history with Velvet/Ich documented elsewhere) - at the first sign of illness get that fish OUT and into a HT. I followed other advice to wait it out, and paid a very steep price in $$$ and heartache.

Interesting about the stress. Mine had obviously just arrived after a long trip, but nothing visible happened for 7-10 days before the ourtbreak. I had two buddies have the exact same issue recently. One took a Tomini tang from me and added a lot of new fish at the same time: stress. The other: no new fish or any changes whatsoever for 6 months: no stress.

Go figure.

 

[downbeach]

Look at acclimation stress, and internal bacteria infections in this article:

http://www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html

 

[MrTuskfish]

You are right though new fish may be sick and then you put them in tank and they seem to pass it on as they may be sick but haven't yet shown symptoms. But if you research it you will find that ich and marine velvet are almost always present in the system.

IMO it is the stress associated with the new addition that causes the systemwide break out as the increased number of parasites can take advantage of the stress of the fish.

Most marine parasites have a 4-6 week life cycle and die without a host in that time period. So, if you fish is healthy in qt for 4-6 weeks and the fish in display are not sick the you should be fine.

Copper treats the symptoms so the fish's immune system gets a chance to recover it shouldn't be used as a preventative.

Huh??? I have no idea where you get your info, but almost every one of your posts on this thread contain significant errors.

 

[reeferstace]

Sorry fort he delay. All fish carry it. It is always in the water. Ick is a breakdown of fishes immune system allowing the parasite to multiply and spread. If you have a quarantine tank 30 days or so in there without any symptoms is enough to be satisfied it's healthy. If you don't have a qt tank I'd look into fresh water dips.

I find that stress is generally what leads to illness. Otherwise healthy fish don't randomly get ick.

The problem with new fish is they'd dear go a long stressful malnourished process from the ocean to your tank that causes their immune system to break down and they get sick.

Usually it is not one fish gives the rest the disease like an std or something. More often the same environmental problems affect all fish at the same time.

Btw tangs are especially sensitive to copper medication.

Wrong.

 

[boca rat]

reeferstace, that's not exactly constructive, please post why you say that.

Thx

 

[snorvich]

While this thread should focus on the OP problem (which may be septicemia), the other issues brought up:

+not all tanks have ich or other parasite
+stress does not cause ich, but poor health or bad nutrition can make a fish more susceptible to death when a parasite is encountered
+all fish do not carry parasites; the exception is the small percentage of fish that have developed a temporary immunity (which lasts about 6 months) who do not show visible or behavioral symptoms but are carriers never the less
+enhancing the immune system is a function of general health and nutrition; however that does not mean that a fish is not susceptible to parasites.

 

[snorvich]

Oh, and if it is septicemia, the only treatment I know of is Maracyn Two.

 

[MrTuskfish]

reeferstace, that's not exactly constructive, please post why you say that.

Thx

IMO, the post by reeferstace is very constructive. A bit short, maybe ,but it sums up the post he's referring too. IMO & IME; every point in the quote reeferstace is quoting (post#8) is wrong and should not be taken as fact. When incorrect information is posted, it needs to be challenged. Many hobbyists could rely on such mis-information with disastrous results.

Snorvich has commented on most of the points in post#8. I am a copper user and strongly disagree with the statement (in post #8) that tangs don't handle copper well. IMO & IME, tangs handle copper extremely well, perhaps as well as any fish we commonly keep. .I have never seen or heard anyone say otherwise, until now.

 

[snorvich]

I am a copper user and strongly disagree with the statement (in post #8) that tangs don't handle copper well. IMO & IME, tangs handle copper extremely well, perhaps as well as any fish we commonly keep. .I have never seen or heard anyone say otherwise, until now.

Ooops. Forgot that one. I was in a hurry, so sorry. I am unaware of any tangs with copper related issues.