Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[BeanAnimal]

Mitch,

Thanks for the invite. The link is not working, but I will check out the forum.

As for your problems, I am not quite sure I understand the setup, but it sounds like you have split the siphon standpipe off into 2 different tanks that are at different levels. If this is the case, then yes it is very likely that you are getting an oscillation between the two outputs. The siphon standpipe should really only have 1 output.

Some photos would certainly help us to understand the setup.

 

[brentj]

Planned tank using this method - will this work?

Planned tank using this method - will this work?

Thanks to all have contributed to this thread... Gorgeous renderings, BeanAnimal. Wow.

I'd love the input of anyone with experience before I build an expensive tank that doesn't work as planned.

I am planning a tank to go on a build-in brick shelf, part of my fireplace. Therefore, I have limited options as far as overflow location. I want to minimize any overflows inside the tank, and I don't want to decrease the front-back depth of the tank to have an external box along the back.

What I am proposing is the following.
40x26x28 (tall) glass A.G.E. tank
internal "coast to coast" weir/calfo type box.
This feeds an external box with room for 2 1-1/2" durso-shaped overflows and one open standpipe (the emergency drain, I WANT this one to be loud!)

I think that the way to connect internal and external boxes would be a 4.5" diameter round hole. (more integrity than routing out a square notch IMO)

At the bottom of the elevation diagram, I sketched a possible side view with an angled wall to the box. Do people think this would make the overflow quieter than a square cross-section? Maybe water would follow the wall instead of falling/splashing? Wishful thinking? Anyone tried?

I specifically would love any input into where I could likely keep the water level with this setup, how deep to make the internal and external boxes. And the depth of the hole between them for minimum turbulance/noise. (deep as possible I'd guess?)

Thanks for anyone willing to share their smarts...

Hmmm... wonder if brick will hold a tank.... there's a cinderblock core inside the shelf...

 

[jnarowe]

very optimistic to put a tank by a fireplace.

 

[brentj]

Fire and water don't mix?

Seriously though, I appreciate your sentiments. I'm planning a thorough measuring of temperatures at different locations before I proceed.

 

[jnarowe]

I have a wood stove (and I know this is a different scenario) but we just about boiled our FW Planted tank 15 feet away by accident one time.

 

[brentj]

Interesting; sorry to hear it. Wow; 15 feet!?! Was it facing it? I just cranked my (gas) fireplace for a half hour. If I sit on the hearth it's hot as heck, but up where the tank is, maybe since it's behind the plane of the firebox, I can't feel any warmth.

Ok, sorry people who are here to talk about overflows, for digressing on fire too much... But I'm glad jnarowe brought it up.

I'd be more interested to know what salt water would do to slate... I'd hate to trash the fireplace I spent countless hours on!

 

[H20ENG]

If its out of the line of sight of the flames (or any surface superheated by the flames), then the radiant heat cant get to it.

 

[robertifly]

Siffy, I haven't worried about a leaking gasket...but then I've never had one.
bean, I figured on the main holding power to come from the four 1" bh tieing the two boxes together and being made from acrylic(I know acrylic doesn't bond to glass like glass will) for two reasons 1. I think acrylic may be easier to seal 2. Less apt to break? I've never drilled a tank but I have drills for 1" and 1.5" bh so that's why I stay with those sizes. Also, it is 1/2" glass if spaced apart will it weaken the wall? Is there a guide to go by?

 

[melev]

Still off topic, but you might have to deal with the gases given off by the fire. Carbon Monoxide, right?

 

[brentj]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12231863#post12231863 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Still off topic, but you might have to deal with the gases given off by the fire. Carbon Monoxide, right?

I hadn't considered that... I plan an enclosed canopy. Then again, I plan some exhaust venting from the canopy, so that will draw air (gasses) in... but then away... I'd be more worried about people if it was really putting off that kind of CO! Hopefully the updraft takes care of most of that.

Still, since you mention it, I'll try to have the air intake away from the fireplace side.

Thanks.

But back to topic, will the overflow work? any experts?


I hope so: looks cool. (overly optimistic? very!) (yes, I'm a dork. I like to visualize. Don't know why these build threads span years... this took less than an hour to "build" and it's done cycling and I spilled no water My thanks to the reefer whose pics I borrowed via google; not for commercial purposes. Just for motivation) I chose not to "visualize" dead fish, spilled water, etc... I'll start my own thread before I post any more off-topic pics, promise...

 

[H20ENG]

Looks great! I'm a sucker for slate though.

 

[robertifly]

bump

 

[BeanAnimal]

Robert, I would still prefer to have the glass overflows cut and siliconed to the tank. I like the extra bracing they add, esp with that many bulkhead holes in the back panel.

brent, there is no need to angle the weir for noise reasons, it will be dead silent. However, you could angle it if you wanted to try and save some space.

 

[brentj]

Thanks, BeanAnimal. I know it's rough sketch, but do you think the size and depth below the surface of the hole between the internal weir and the external box will work?

I drew it (above) as a 6" deep internal weir with a 4" diameter hole, with the top of the hole 2" below the top of the tank. But if I could make it shorter that'd be ok too.

How far below the top do you think it'd be best to have the water level?

Thanks for any input.

 

[Siffy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12231516#post12231516 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by robertifly
it is 1/2" glass if spaced apart will it weaken the wall? Is there a guide to go by?

There is a suggested/rule of thumb spacing between holes. And I don't recall if it's been mentioned in this thread. As I don't remember what exactly that rule is, I won't care to guess. Hopefully someone else will chime in, as this is a perfect place to address it and it is important.

 

[robertifly]

I understand the reasons you mention for using glass and certainly can do, I guess I was just thinking the acrylid may be easier to work with and look a little better on the joints, glue vs. silicone and possibily stronger. As for the cl, I may be over kill with six 1" outlets, I could down size them to 3/4" and/or number of jets from six to four. I haven't considered what pump but I'm not wanting too much flow. I don't know about two 1.5" and nor a 2" suction, one 1.5" should be enough. How do people keep their livestock from getting sucked against a suction strainer anyway with fow like that? I would worry about fish, shrimp, and other small creatures getting pulled into it. I'm guessing 3/8" glass for the overflow boxes will be ok?

 

[MeuserReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12240574#post12240574 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Siffy
There is a suggested/rule of thumb spacing between holes. And I don't recall if it's been mentioned in this thread. As I don't remember what exactly that rule is, I won't care to guess. Hopefully someone else will chime in, as this is a perfect place to address it and it is important.

I have always used the rule that the spacing between holes, and/or the edge of the pane of glass, should equal, at minimum, the diameter of the holes being drilled.

To use my recent drilling project as an example (Im using Bean's triple pipe system myself), I drilled (3) 46mm holes that are spaced roughly 50mm apart from each other and from the edge(my hole saw bits were metric)

Im sure there is a limit to this approach, but it worked for me.

 

[Siffy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12241354#post12241354 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by robertifly
I understand the reasons you mention for using glass and certainly can do, I guess I was just thinking the acrylid may be easier to work with and look a little better on the joints, glue vs. silicone and possibily stronger. As for the cl, I may be over kill with six 1" outlets, I could down size them to 3/4" and/or number of jets from six to four. I haven't considered what pump but I'm not wanting too much flow. I don't know about two 1.5" and nor a 2" suction, one 1.5" should be enough. How do people keep their livestock from getting sucked against a suction strainer anyway with fow like that? I would worry about fish, shrimp, and other small creatures getting pulled into it. I'm guessing 3/8" glass for the overflow boxes will be ok?

These are the best looking screens I've ever come across.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3y5lej

I first saw them on a tank with 2 of them as the owner's closed loop intakes. Snails could crawl over them just fine and fish weren't sucked to them. Very light pressure loss.

Once they get covered in coralline, they're hard to find. The holes just barely caught my eye, so I asked him about it.

 

[robertifly]

Nice, thanks for link. The strainer looks kind of flat too which is good.

 

[Siffy]

It is. I've only ever seen them for 1 1/2" bulkheads and the most they protrude from the tank walls is 3/4 to 1".