jasonmartin1313
New member
neat
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter BeanAnimal
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Siffy
New member
It's not a bad design. I don't think you understand the design. Take another look. If it were bad design I doubt it would have been left in use for 2 years before Bean created this documentation to share. Which many, myself included, appreciate. Rarely in the DIY forum are projects documented as success or failures so long term. The pipes are inside an internal overflow box (Calfo coast-to-coast style as Bean said). When the return pump is turned off they will continue to siphon until that box is emptied to the point the siphon breaks. Then all drain flow will stop, and all 3 pipes will be full of air only. The siphon is restarted automatically when the return pump is turned back on. The throttled drain siphons on the same principles as a Carleson surge device. Bean has already explained how this happens. The throttled drain never gurgles because the siphon never breaks. In an ideal setup, that drain is set to handle (due to diameter restriction) 99% of the return pump's output. That way it can never completely empty the overflow box causing the siphon to break. The other 1% trickle is drained by the drain with a Durso (design that prevents a siphon). Dursos are quiet under low flow, but not when high water flow creates high air flow. The emergency 3rd drain may not ever be needed, and under normal conditions it will never see water. But if the Durso is EVER clogged and the emergency drain is not present, the tank WILL overflow.
The Durso's airline placement is well thought out as well. Nice work, Bean.
The worst part about this design is it will not work on a standard from the factory RR tank. The holes have to be self drilled or special ordered. Thanks again, Bean.
What have you tried to make the skimmer quiet? Is it the air draw on it making the noise?
kimoyo
Active member
This has to be one of the most disturbing threads I've seen in a while. Every idea in this thread was already worked out in the thread I posted from 2004. Bean even joined that discussion 3 months and 14 pages in.
BTW. The emergency drain was the main point of Herbie's method. Everyone please read the first 5 pages of the linked thread then reply to my post. Thank you.
People were already even using/discussing 4 standpipes with Herbie's method because they had two overflows. The airline placement is not even close to being new. And the increase in pipe diameter, whatever!, done already and same principle. I myself have been using this method for 3 years now because of Herbie's thread. Making some CAD drawings and waiting 4 years later doesn't change who came up with the design.
BTW. The emergency drain was the main point of Herbie's method. Everyone please read the first 5 pages of the linked thread then reply to my post. Thank you.
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for those of us that have under 500 posts, we dont care who came up with the design... we only care for the fact that it has been brought back to the forefront and has nice, easy to view drawings that translate well to the exact pieces that are available in most hardware retailers. The purpose of this thread and ALL threads here is to share information.
"No... not 8-minute abs... 7- minutes... 8 minute abs is all wrong"
- Something About Mary
"No... not 8-minute abs... 7- minutes... 8 minute abs is all wrong"
- Something About Mary
GuySmilie
Premium Member
So then, what you're inferring here is that once someone publishes a concept or process to improve the SOTA, then no one else can ever do so again? Guess we better all turn off the servers and go home because there is very little in this hobby that is new and truly innovative.
I followed the Herbie thread as well back then, and I don't recall either you or Herbie, or anyone else, for that matter, putting it all together in an understandable document with supporting (and concise) engineering notation.
I'm sorry that you are disturbed by this thread. Perhaps BeanAnimal will take pity with your torment and offer some sort of financial restitution to all those offended by such gross negligence......or, perhaps not!
ClayWagner
New member
Whoops! I must've lost my "
" face after "Not that I would"! Wow without that my post looked like an attack! I was completely and most certainly being facetious. In other words I aprove the design. I wanted to see pics so that I could set it up on my tank, ha! Because I hate gurgling...(not that this system is going to gurgle as it was interpreted). Sorry for the misunderstanding 
.
" face after "Not that I would"! Wow without that my post looked like an attack! I was completely and most certainly being facetious. In other words I aprove the design. I wanted to see pics so that I could set it up on my tank, ha! Because I hate gurgling...(not that this system is going to gurgle as it was interpreted). Sorry for the misunderstanding .
cartman5579
New member
Bean, quick question...
Can you explain to me what you mean when you say that the bottom of the standpipe is submerged as well as the top? Are you saying the bottom of the three drains need to be submerged in the sump?
Can you explain where you have the 3 different drains going into your sysetm?
Can you explain to me what you mean when you say that the bottom of the standpipe is submerged as well as the top? Are you saying the bottom of the three drains need to be submerged in the sump?
Can you explain where you have the 3 different drains going into your sysetm?
kimoyo
Active member
If thats all you wanted Bean could have saved some time and bumped the old thread and put all the easy to view drawings there.
I was so truly befuddled by your wit it has left me silenced. You want engineering notation to make the concept understandable. The layman terms of Herbie was so difficult to understand and the immense display of engineering notation in this thread has made the concept understandable for you. I think your right, sometimes pictures help, hahah. Lets turn all the servers off and go home now, lol.
BTW I more than welcome the financial restitution, pm me and we can discuss an amount and where the check should be sent
So sorry, back to topic and so ends my comments here.
MeuserReef
Welcome to the next level
Well.... if the idea was so "revoultionary" back then and the "credit" was so important, then you (or Herbie) should have filed for a little thing called a "Patent".
I would like to thank Bean for the clear and concise breakdown of a good idea (regardless who "invented" it) for those of us NOT running this idea to ponder over. Personally, I like the idea of a DEAD SILENT overflow and, at the moment, dont have one! This thread helps to steer me torward some TESTED ways to change that.
LoneRanger
Member
i too would love to see some pics of your system bean!
L.R.
L.R.
kimoyo
Active member
Just to clarify this, I'm not Herbie. My username is kimoyo but I benefited from Herbie's concept and thread. Herbie came off to me as a true hobbyist, he tried to help people for free. He never mentioned patents and I have no idea why you would bring that up. On the other hand if you look at the first post in this thread you will see someone taking credit for something he didn't come up with. BTW, I really like the idea of my dead silent overflow and till this day I'm extremely happy (that's why I'm commenting on this thread) with the thread Herbie created. Herbie's idea was extremely clear and concise if you read the original thread.
pescadero
In Memoriam
Your participation in the previously existing thread has been acknowledged for the record.
Having read both threads, I wonder why such a fuss is being made about who should receive credit for the modern application of a concept that dates back to Ancient Egypt.
Putting things in perspective, I think that Bean deserves commendation for his efforts. If people want to fight over who designed what, everyone should yield in giving credit to Ctesbius for the original documentation of the principle of the siphon. Everyone else's efforts in the aquarium hobby are essentially derivative works, Herbie's included.
Now that you've cited the older thread, there are a couple of ways to approach the information contained in it: One could return to the old thread that spans 3 months and 14 pages, wading through lots of posts in an effort to separate the wheat from the chaff, or one could just read Bean's thread that provides all of the requisite information in a concise, easy to read format.
Regardless of who may have originally published the concept, the fact remains that Bean did us a great service by: a) consolidating the information into a couple of easily readable posts, b) improving the design, and c) providing SOTA diagrams to make it all understandable.
IMO this is an excellent example of how cooperation works to everyone's benefit in this hobby. Someone took an existing design, improved it, and shared the information for everyone's benefit.
Who may have originally devised the information isn't as important to me as Bean's concise presentation. Bean has done a good deed. Thank you, Bean.
cartman5579
New member
Still looking for more clarification on the other end of this device.
cartman5579
New member
that doesn't make sense to me cause whenever i submerge my drain in my sump i get this terrible bubbling at the surface of the water, and where in the world do you find room in the sump for 3 seperate drainpipes? Can i connect all these into 1 drain without altering the concept?
itZme
New member
That's because you have air being introduced into your water as it is falling byt he Standpipe you have. This method doesn't allow ANY air into the drain water therefore no bubbling. I have my 92g tank draining into my basment in-wall displays through a pair of seaswirls and you NEVER see any air bubbles coming from them. You really can't tell the water is moving in the sump unless there is something in the flow that moves. The surface is clear and you have no bubbling at all.
Give the "Herbie" thread a read and then come back and read this one. You should try it yourself or at least visit someone's tank who does it this way to judge for yourself.
Qwiv
Persistant Perspective
Sorry you can't take criticism Bean, but your setup is either overkill or set-up for very high flow. I have been using a siphon with a back-up drain since my first tank in 97. Never needed all the extra junk in your design. I can see it having a purpose in a high flow situation, like your 1500 gal. but not a tank with a reasonable flow rate.
For the record, I am not mocking the siphon method. I was using it well before RC even existed. I had to because my first tank was in my bedroom in college. I am criticizing the waste of materials and cost. It is bad for the environment and shows a lack of design/expertise. For those who say it is good to over design things, let me build your next home and office building. I'll use twice the required studs, beams, paint, drywall etc. and give you 2x the bill. Lets see how you feel about an over-design then.
For the record, I am not mocking the siphon method. I was using it well before RC even existed. I had to because my first tank was in my bedroom in college. I am criticizing the waste of materials and cost. It is bad for the environment and shows a lack of design/expertise. For those who say it is good to over design things, let me build your next home and office building. I'll use twice the required studs, beams, paint, drywall etc. and give you 2x the bill. Lets see how you feel about an over-design then.
shyland83
New member
I have a similar overflow box with 4-1" drains and a lot of flow and have been fighting microbubbles. I just added a ball valve to one, and turned 2 elbows up and saw an immediate improvement in bubbles. I actually increased my flow and still have much fewer bubbles.
In the beginning he mentioned it was overkill, and that you only really need a ball valve on the one pipe.
This thread will help a lot of people in the designing of their own overflows. Let's keep things in perspective here. We are all hobbyists trying to learn from each others experience and ideas.
In the beginning he mentioned it was overkill, and that you only really need a ball valve on the one pipe.
This thread will help a lot of people in the designing of their own overflows. Let's keep things in perspective here. We are all hobbyists trying to learn from each others experience and ideas.
You could sit at RC all day and spew out who did what first on such and such a thread. If someone tweaks a design or happens to come up with something that has been done before, should they not share?
"a true hobbyist, he tried to help people for free" Gimme a break. That sure was malicious of Bean to post all of that info and hours worth of drawings.
I didnt see him selling the info, but posting for all to see.
Good ol Herbie. Did he post that thread before or after he invented the wheel and gravity?
Must be ream Bean week. Quiv, I saw nothing but an attack in your response.
"a true hobbyist, he tried to help people for free" Gimme a break. That sure was malicious of Bean to post all of that info and hours worth of drawings.
I didnt see him selling the info, but posting for all to see.Good ol Herbie. Did he post that thread before or after he invented the wheel and gravity?
Must be ream Bean week. Quiv, I saw nothing but an attack in your response.
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