Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[asl4me76]

Awesome. I'm definitely looking into this. I am in the process of acquiring everything else I need for the tank as well. A place locally yo me has been sent to me from a fellow reefer that I can call and take my plans too.

 

[ToeTag77]

Okay so I am thinking of drilling 5 more holes.
Three to go inside my 60" overflow like bean suggests... Also one on either side of the overflow for the return water from my pump (Mag 24). Then I plan on using two of the holes on the bottom of the tank for drains and the other two for return water for the closed loop.

So I will have 4 spots where water will be returning to the tank.... Two on the bottom and two in the back of the tank. Does this sound like an okay way to plumb the tank without the need for powerheads? The four bottom holes are 3/4" and the 5 I plan on drilling in the back will accept 1" bulkheads.

The other option is to drill yet 2 MORE holes(giving me 11 total holes). Giving me two drains for CL system and 4 return holes for CL system.. Follow me?

Any advice is appreciated.

7ft x 2ft x 2ft....

 

[chetscc]

BeanAnimal,

Can I bend your ear (eyes) for a moment? I have installed the system as you have it illustrated and even verified that I do not have any air leaks. I have added a ball valve to my return line as well. When I throttle back the return flow and adjust the siphon overflow ball valve, it cuts out the gurgling and any burping of the system. However, there is no longer enough pressure to make the siphon overflow start up again when restarting the pump. Also, I can still hear the water running through the siphon overflow.

When you say Dead Silent I assume this means not sounds at all, so this is what I have come to expect. Please let me know if I am wrong in assuming this.

Thanks in Advance!

Brandon

 

[asl4me76]

I have actually learned that I was incorrect in my post previously. None of the glass is tempered, which is great news for me!

Still trying to decide which way to go.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13775114#post13775114 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MperRluvR
1)The bulkheads are not all together, one is on the right and two are on the left (reverse on the other tank, see pics)

No problem, as long as they all end up in the same overflow box.

2)The bulkheads are different from the one on your site/this thread at least to the point where they have a 90degree fitting for tubing to go onto. The 90degree bend seems to be glued to the bulkhead and the bulkheads themselves are siliconed to the glass.
3)Continuing from (2) above this is stainless steel enforced tubing, and is expensive. I would like to reuse it if possible.

The elbows will work on the siphon and emergency standpipe. You will need to get a TEE on one of the bulkheads. 1" bulkheads are pretty cheap. There is no need for steel reinforced hose, this is not a pressure based system.

The tanks both came this way, but I am trying to use what I have. If possible I would like to stray away from removing these bulkheads since as previously mentioned they are siliconed in (No idea why) but the 90 degree bends seem to be in my way. What should I do?

The silicone should be easy to remove. As I mentioned, bulkheads are cheap

[/b][/quote]Also with regards to the overflow box, I was thinking of two boxes on each tank instead of one box that runs all the way across. They would be 3" x 3" x 23" long each, one on each end of each tank. Here is my tanks currently and thanks in advance for reading.[/b][/quote] You could isolate the "emergency" standpipe by not even putting it in a box. That way you would have only 1 box.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13804554#post13804554 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chetscc
All,

I am having an issue tuning my failsafe and quiet overflows. Is there a trick to this? I am using a ball valve to adjust the flow.

There is no "trick" if the system is setup properly.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13806241#post13806241 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ToeTag77
Bean,

I am in the process of setting up a 210 gallon tank. It has Four drilled holes in the bottom of the tank (see pic)

Anyways.... I am going to follow your lead on the overflow design. Thanks a TON for posting this for everyone! Anyways would you suggest 1" holes like you did or would you go larger for this tank? It is 7x2x2... Also, I am planning on using the 4 holes in the bottom for Closed Loop(which I have never owned before). They are 3/4". How many more holes would you drill (if any) for the closed loop and where would they be?

I would use the 4 holes in the bottom for the closed loop returns and drill the mid back for the intakes. Maybe (2) 2" intake bulkheads teed on the inside to create at least (4) intake strainers.

The 1" bulkheads would work, but going with (3) 1.25" or 1.5" bulkheads would be a better plan.

Do you have any pictures of your tank fully setup?

www.beananimal.com check out photos in my gallery section.

As others have indicated, putting the "open channel" bulkhead 1/2" or so higher than the siphon bulkhead will facilitate easier starting for the siphon.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13808214#post13808214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by asl4me76
Hey Bean --

Looking at the design of the overflow box, is the overflow the entire length of the tank? Also, how big are those pieces that you have there? They look to be about 5" wide on both of them, but I could be wrong. If so, please correct me on that.

Also, is the overflow a DIY as well? If so, is it acrylic that you used? It doesn't look like it's cut with teeth in it, is that correct?

Thanks for a great design.

I don't know the measurements off hand, but 5" sounds about right.

I am not sure what your second question is? The overflow box is made of (2) glass pieces that are about 5" in width, siliconed in an "L" shape. Flat no teeth.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13816432#post13816432 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chetscc
BeanAnimal,

Can I bend your ear (eyes) for a moment? I have installed the system as you have it illustrated and even verified that I do not have any air leaks. I have added a ball valve to my return line as well. When I throttle back the return flow and adjust the siphon overflow ball valve, it cuts out the gurgling and any burping of the system. However, there is no longer enough pressure to make the siphon overflow start up again when restarting the pump. Also, I can still hear the water running through the siphon overflow.

I honestly can not comment without seeing photos of the system. If built as specified, the system will not gurgle and burp with the maximum flow that your pump puts out. You indicate the need to throttle the system to get it to balance. That would mean that 1) the siphon is not working at full capacity and 2) the open channel is not flowing freely.

When you say Dead Silent I assume this means not sounds at all, so this is what I have come to expect. Please let me know if I am wrong in assuming this.

You may hear water cascading down the open channel. The siphon should be DEAD SILENT once the air is purged. Rough edges in the plumbing can cause slight sounds to be heard, but they should be much less noticable than the hum of the mag pump.

 

[jeffrey_ropp]

Bean,

I'm implementing your design on my 55 gallon tank. I've added 2 new bulkheads (1") to complement the existing 1.5" bulkhead (old drain). I've decided to go with 1" plumbing for all 3 lines to the sump.

Unfortunately, my tank is slightly bowed which restricts me from adding a coast to coast overflow. I've built a small (12" x 4" x 4") overflow that will give me approx 19" of linear overflow.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/6t-nvrK3bwyrNU3cPfX0nQ"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ZuFzCJLe6G0/SSx4TC_xg0I/AAAAAAAAB78/S3MIWU5U70I/s400/IMG_1492.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/JeffreyRopp/Overflow">Overflow</a></td></tr></table>
<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RAdIxIv4NO1w2miFYfy4zQ"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ZuFzCJLe6G0/SSx4TjBBAUI/AAAAAAAAB8E/WD295wHAKi4/s400/IMG_1494.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/JeffreyRopp/Overflow">Overflow</a></td></tr></table>

My return pump is only rated for 500 g/h but I'd like to upgrade this to add more flow without adding a closed loop.

What sort of flow rate can I expect to reliably handle with this configuration? Per the RC calculator, 15 inches can handle 1000g/h. Sound about right?

Many thanks,
Jeff

 

[BeanAnimal]

The overflow will handle as much as you throw at it it. As the volume increases, so does the depth of the water going over the "falls". So with 12x4x4 you get about 18" of linear overflow. Not ideal, but better than nothing.

If it is not clear yet, the linear overflow calculation is not a measure of the overflows capacity. It is simply a rule of thumb type value to indicate how well the overflow will "surface skim".

 

[jeffrey_ropp]

Thanks Bean. So with 1" plumbing, I could easily move 1000 g/h through the system?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Jeffrey... you should be able to. The open channel may be a bit noisy with 1" plumbing, depending on how much flow you adjust it to handle.

 

[Sango-chu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13816790#post13816790 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
I honestly can not comment without seeing photos of the system. If built as specified, the system will not gurgle and burp with the maximum flow that your pump puts out. You indicate the need to throttle the system to get it to balance. That would mean that 1) the siphon is not working at full capacity and 2) the open channel is not flowing freely.

You may hear water cascading down the open channel. The siphon should be DEAD SILENT once the air is purged. Rough edges in the plumbing can cause slight sounds to be heard, but they should be much less noticable than the hum of the mag pump.

Yup, I get a little noise too, but its not because of the design, or actually it is because of the great design when I look at it. Water moves so fast thru the open channel that I MUST throttle back my drain or my internal overflow box is almost always empty from the suction created. I had to go from a regular ball valve on my 1.5 inch drain to a gate valve and I still am fine tuning it...getting a little water from the emergency/overflow channel, therefore splashing in my return area of the sump. Right now, I am happy that thing has saltwater in it; running full force easily thru a 310 ~ gal system; tweaking the reeflo ORCA 250's output standpipe...etc...

 

[ToeTag77]

I found all of the parts at Home Depot with a few minor changes.

The 90 degree elbow's that go into the overflow box I couldn't find a 1"-1.25" so I just bought 1"-1".... Will this effect anything?

Also the Sanitary T's were only available in ABS not PVC. So I just bought regular T's.

Would these two changes drastically effect the performance of any part of your system design?

 

[BeanAnimal]

You should be fine ToeTag

 

[ToeTag77]

Bean you have any current pics of your setup(s)? I would be interested in checking them out!

Also,
The return water I see you bring up and over the top of the tank correct? Do you run lock-line into the tank? How many jets/nozzels do you have the return water going through? What fittings have you found work best going into the sump? In the past I have taken PVC pipe and cut slots in them and stacked live rock around them. I am just about to setup my new 210 and want all my options on the table. Thanks! At least a picture of you setup with the canopy open and one of underneath your stand would be awesome!

 

[BeanAnimal]

There are some currentish photos at my website

Yes, you can bring the returns over the top. I use an oceans motions device. They are reliable and the customer service can't be beat. It feeds 4 outputs that are fitted at the ends with 3-4 joints of locline. Locline is very prone to salt creep, but I live with it.

I don't have a canopy.. My tank is an in-wall with a simple DIY aluminum light bar and pulley system (soon to be upgraded).

You don't need slots or any fancy sump discharge setup. Just terminate the pipes 1/2" or so into intake compartment of the sump.

As others have noted, the open channel bulkhead hole can be drilled 1/2" or so above the siphon bulkhead hole to aid in the siphon starting. My sump water level does not rise very far when the system shuts down. If your setup does, then you don't want the siphon standpipe to be submerged too deep... it may not start as easy.

 

[ToeTag77]

A little confused about the last comment. (probably just way too tired but anyways).... So you are suggesting on the back of the tank to drill two holes approx 4.25 (to the center of the hole) from the top of the tank and one maybe 3.75" from the top? Am I following you?

I dont think I am.... Goodnight.
Ill come back in the morning with a new set of eyes to make sense of this. I am drilling the tank tomorrow!

 

[ToeTag77]

Oh yeah.... I made the overflow box 40" x 5" x 5". I didnt see the need to spread the overflow over the whole 7 ft of tank when I am only pushing 1500gph through it right? Also wanted the extra room to work with in the tank.