Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[gkyle]

Excellent. I thought a 300 percent increase with a siphon was impressive, but more is better. Based on that, I think my 1.5 siphon with that much drop will flow more than I can pump. I tweaked the pump just a bit too much twice now and overflowed the stock 1" drains twice now, so a change was in order..

 

[Veni vidi vici]

Im almost ready Bean,staining today and ordering pump , bulkheads ,and drill bits Friday.
Im going to follow your design and use 1'-90s on tank side to keep the overflow box as close to back wall as possible,then change to 1.5"pvc pipe.
BTW hope you dont mind i posted your design at that other place.I just wanted to show others what i was planning.

 

[BeanAnimal]

If you can find the "reducing 90's" they will work better.

They are Street 90's that have a larger input than output ( I got mine at HD or LOWES) I think they were 1.25" female x 1" male.

The larger mouth will help to prevent a vortex.

 

[tankdvr]

So my best bet is to just use all three in the overflow as you suggest, then I guess just run the return over the top? I know this is a little off topic, but how would you go about securing it to the top of the tank so there's no shifting? I really don't think I could have more holes drilled in my tank for a return, so going over the back is my only option.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That is another can of worms...

What are you using for flow? Return pump? An OM squirt over the top in 2 or 4 spots would be great.

To secure a single PVC return? Velcro or zip tie to the center brace.

 

[tankdvr]

I'm not sure what pump I'm going to use yet. The people at my lfs suggested going with a mag5 or something with around that much power. Then I'd just run either a 1 inch or 1 1/2 inch pipe up and over the top and split off to two locklines arched over the overflow and directed to the front corners.

If it makes it easier to visualize, this is what i'm working with right now.
It's been cleaned up, repainted and the bulkheads were swapped out, but the structure is the same.

 

[coralfragger101]

I sure hope these pipe lengths work out. Dummy me - glued them already.

 

[coralfragger101]

I need some help here guys. Don't think you have to wait for Bean to respond. Someone that has done this already may be able to chime in.

My first mistake was probably not reading this thread from beginning to end. I read enough to get the general idea and figured that there was some leeway in the design and decided to go for it. Main changes from Bean's design that I can think of is that I kept all the pipe at 1". I used 1" T's instead of sanitary tees because I couldn't find 1" sanitary Tee's.

The photo above is the overflow I created. IT DOESN'T WORK!

Well - it does but it darn sure isn't silent.

The main problem is that the main siphon does not kick in. What ends up happening is that water fills the box till the secondary (durso) kicks in. The durso surges and runs as a siphon and then back to sucking air, then back to a siphon. Creating quite a bit of noise the entire time.

I jump started the main siphon (sucked some air out till it kicked in) just to see how it would run if it was runnly properly. DEAD SILENT and NO BUBBLES.

So I'm close but no cigar.

What makes Beans siphon kick in on start up?

 

[coralfragger101]

A bunch of people are looking but no one has any ideas?

I have a theory myself.

I assume that the weight of the water is what pushes the air out of the pipe and that just isn't happening in my case.

What if I simply drill a hole as shown below? This would allow water into the pipe very easily as it fills and might be enough to kick things in. My concern here with a hole pointing towards the surface would be if this hole has enough suction once the siphon is going that it could form a vortex to the surface.

Just thought of something else to try before drilling a hole. I think the outlet pipe is submerged like 6" or so now. If I submerge it only 1" then it shouldn't take as much force to blow the air out. Right?

Going to try that one now.

 

[coralfragger101]

Hooray!

Thanks for the help guys. It works. I just had the outlet tube submerged too far. The main siphon now kicks in on start up. The 3rd pipe isn't even used on start up. The siphon kicks in and the water level settles in right at the holes I drilled in the sides of the durso to skim the overflow box.

No noise - No bubbles.

This thing rocks. It's almost better than sex. Nah - I take that back.

 

[coralfragger101]

Is there a trick to getting the water level stable?

I've been playing with this all day today and it is either slowly raising or slowly lowering. I'm using a gate valve versus a ball valve figuring it would give me the precision I need but I'll be damned if I can get this thing set right.

 

[coralfragger101]

Is there a trick to getting the water level stable?

I've been playing with this all day today and it is either slowly raising or slowly lowering. I'm using a gate valve versus a ball valve figuring it would give me the precision I need but I'll be damned if I can get this thing set right.

 

[Veni vidi vici]

I think your problem lies in the elevations of your siphon and open chennel 90s.If im not mistaken Beans desgn requires at least those 2 bulkheads and 90s to be at the same elevation.If my uderstanding is correct the siphon and open channel work together to even things out.

 

[coralfragger101]

Say it ain't so. That's something that I can not correct at this stage of the game.

 

[robertifly]

Finally starting tank!

Finally starting tank!

Just got the collection outside and overflow box inside this week and planning to use Bean's silent drain with 3 1.5" pipes all the way. As you can see I plan to attach the both with 4 1" bulkheads (don't have them all yet) which will double a path for the water to exit, I may have to use some extra gaskets but I don't see why it shouldn't work ok, anyone see a problem with doing this? Oh what's that rule on holes, 1.5" x dia. spacing?

 

[Siffy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12618853#post12618853 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coralfragger101
Is there a trick to getting the water level stable?

I've been playing with this all day today and it is either slowly raising or slowly lowering. I'm using a gate valve versus a ball valve figuring it would give me the precision I need but I'll be damned if I can get this thing set right.

I'm not sure if I quite understand your problem. The water level should raise slowly until it hits the durso, then it should stay stable at that point. Is your durso kicking in as a siphon and lowering the level? Some water is going to have to go through the open/durso channel for the siphon to work right, or it will constantly empty the box and gurgle.

 

[Tswifty]

Bean... I've been having a problem lately with the water level in the overflow. I can't find a happy medium. The calfo either maxes out with water flowing down all 3 standpipes, or runs dry... Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

[coralfragger101]

Siffy:

I don't let it go long enough to do what you said but it would. I think it's the same problem as Tswifty has.

Using Examples: I set the level halfway through a hole I have drilled in the durso drain. Several hours later I'll check on it. Let's say the hole is completely submerged (hasn't gotten to the point that the durso turns into a siphon but I'm sure it would if simply left unattended) so I fidle with the gate valve and reset it. Check on it several hours later and it may be still raising or it could be lowering this time around. It's a crap shoot. The gate valve would need to be set very precise to hold the water level stable.

Maybe I should just let it run in the slowly raising position. Eventually the durso turns to a siphon and would lower the water level and simply start the process all over again. Should still be a quiet system.

 

[Tswifty]

I think it's just a matter of my crappy valves I picked up from lowes... they're hard to make small adjustments with. I wrestled with the thing for about 20 minutes and was able to get the water level set finally.

 

[coralfragger101]

Siffy:

You got me thinking and I think I have my problem figured out. I closed the valve some to let the water raise at a rate faster than normal. I expected it to continue raising and the durso would turn into a siphon but it didn't. The water level seemed to stabalize just above the holes in the durso.

Here's the durso.

I've been trying to adjust the water level to the center of the hole in the durso so that it would skim the box. The problem is that the holes were drilled a tad low. When water was running at mid hole in the durso, none was actually going through the channel. Once the level goes up a bit and lets some water run through the channel then it settles in.

I think my solution is to simply cut a slit (RED) above each hole to allow for skimming and we should be good to go.