Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12619910#post12619910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coralfragger101
The gate valve would need to be set very precise to hold the water level stable.
Click to expand...

That's not how this system works. I don't understand why your durso would turn into a siphon. The vent for it should be on top. And from your picture it looks like it is, with the tube coming out of it. The hole in the side of the durso isn't doing anything. If your durso and emergency standpipes can handle all the flow by themselves, check by closing the valve all the way for a minute, I'd say set it and let it be for a couple days. The system/plumbing probably isn't broken in yet anyway so it'll vary itself for a couple weeks while slime builds up.

Just read your other post. If you're looking for surface skimming, why not just take the downward facing 90 off the durso pipe? Surface skimming in the overflow box shouldn't be that big a deal to worry about either since the turbulence in that area shouldn't allow much build up. But that would vary on flow rates of course, but it's not like it matters anyway.

It sounds like your setup is working normal. Silent?
 
The hole in the side of the durso is doing something. It's doing all the skimming. Your idea of simply removing the downward 90 is actually a good one and would allow for more skimming (if it's even needed). BUT - everything is glued.

Since it appears to be running properly now (and yes - it's silent) I'm just going to leave it alone and see if a slim build up (surface slim) even occurs. If it does, then I'll cut the end off the durso.

Thanks for the help.
 
Removing the 90 will increase the noise slightly. It'll allow you to hear the water cascade down that pipe more. I'm curious, why did you even bother to glue the drain plumbing since it doesn't matter if it leaks a bit inside the overflow box?
 
I didn't really think about it at the time. I just glued everything. I have two and possibly three more overflows to replumb. I definately won't glue those.

I am curious to see what will happen over time though. As I see it, the water level is still on the slightly raising side but is not visable anymore simply because the open channel durso is compensating for the difference. However, I imagine that there will be a point in time whether it be days or months that it hits its capacity and will then raise to the point of turning the durso into a siphon and then lowering and starting all over again.
 
I'm confused as to why: 1) you are desiring "surface skimming" inside of the overflow that is already removing the top layer of water from the tank. and 2) why you put the hole in the side of the open channel standpipe....all you've done by doing that is given yourself an uncontrolled, unadjustable place for air to enter the pipe and cause noise...that's why you have the 1/4" RO tubing coming out the top of that pipe(and there should be a valve on that at the top of the standpipe, before the tubing curves over to the other side of the overflow).
I think if you closed that hole in the side of the pipe the system would operate properly. There is no mention of that hole in Bean's original design, so I think it would be unnessecary or cause undesirable results.
 
Hope this one clears up any "whys".

1) As stated previously, I haven't read the entire post. I only read enough to get a general idea.

2) I do remember reading that the open channel can be a durso standpipe.

3) I've always had 3 holes drilled into the side of any durso I have made because I simply followed the design of a manufactured durso that came on a 65 gal RR tank that I have. That durso had holes in it so I assumed they were there for a reason.

4) The holes, do not appear to effect how this set up is running now that I have it stabalized.

5) Surface skimming: I realized the box water is water that is skimmed from the top of the tank. The thought of skimming the box water is simply to make sure that any floating slime continues on through the system so that it can eventually get picked up by the skimmer. If it stays in the overflow box - it never will hit the skimmer. This is something I guess that may or may not happen if I was to close up the holes in the durso. Since I've always had holes and the water has always been skimmed, I can not say for certain that a build up would occur without the holes.

Since the water level has decided to settle in just above the holes at this point and I'm going to just let it run as such for the time being, I guess we'll see what happens to the surface water in the box.

And one more "why" that hasn't been asked yet.

Q) Why does it appear that the bulkhead holes are simply placed randomly?

A) Because this is a replumb and I'm working with overflows that had some previous holes to begin with.
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12620260#post12620260 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coralfragger101
The hole in the side of the durso is doing something. It's doing all the skimming. Your idea of simply removing the downward 90 is actually a good one and would allow for more skimming (if it's even needed). BUT - everything is glued.

Since it appears to be running properly now (and yes - it's silent) I'm just going to leave it alone and see if a slim build up (surface slim) even occurs. If it does, then I'll cut the end off the durso.

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

The surface skimming is done by the overflow weir. The turnover rate in the overflow box should be sufficient to prevent scum buildup there. Your air hole is likely making things in the durso unstable. You also have only 1" pipe, meaning that the durso has a very restricted bandwidth to help self adjust the siphon.
 
I think it's the Lowe's ball valves... after I played with it for a while I was able to get it set right.

Also for some reason my syphon has not been kicking in on the open channel standpipe. I'll need to take some time to play with it later this week to try and figure out exactly what is going on.
 
A little food safe silicone grease will help the ball valve. But it really should be set and forget.

If the emergency siphon is not kicking in, then you have an air leak in the standpipe :)
 
That's what I was thinking... I'm pretty sure I know where it is at also. I did a pretty crude job drilling the hole for the airline fitting (didn't have the right size drill bit). So I will more than likely need to pick up a new cap and redo it the right way.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12621380#post12621380 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
The surface skimming is done by the overflow weir. The turnover rate in the overflow box should be sufficient to prevent scum buildup there. Your air hole is likely making things in the durso unstable. You also have only 1" pipe, meaning that the durso has a very restricted bandwidth to help self adjust the siphon.
Click to expand...

The turnover rate in the overflow box may very keep a scum buildup from forming - only time will tell this.

The air holes I drilled are actually not air holes anymore since the system stabalized just above the air holes. The holes are simply acting as part of the channel and allowing water to flow into the durso.

Since it does appear to be stable now, once again, I think I'll just let it go and see what happens over time.

The only question that still remains with me is the increase in pipe size in your design. This may have been covered elsewhere and I simply haven't read it. Now you mention that keeping the pipes at 1" "could" be having an effect on the durso. I originally "assumed" that you stepped it up to 1.5" in order to utilize sanitary Tees which don't seem to come in a 1" size. Maybe my assumption was wrong.

Did you try this system with keeping everything at 1" and found problems, which is why you stepped it up to 1.5" ? , because mine seems to be stable now. I realize it's only run for 2 days now and is still breaking in and maybe it's just too early to see whatever problems arise from keeping things at 1"?

I'd really like this one responded to rapidly if possible as I am tearing apart another overflow to redo it today (as soon as I get off of here).

Thanks in advance.
 
you cant get 1" sanitary tee's...huh...I have a ton of 1" pvc tee's??? As for the 1" all the way plumbing question, I have also used a similar design to the one in this thread. I have 2 overflows, 1 x 1" full syphon durso and 1 x 1" emerg syphon durso. I am getting ready to fill my new system up in a week or so, so I'd like to know the answer to your questions also...I dont for see it being an issue.
 
I've looked at all the normal places for 1" sanitary tees (HD, Lowe's, etc). I asked at these places and was told that they do make them but hard to get and that I'd probably need to try a pool place. I figured it wasn't worth the hassle at that point and went with the normal T's instead.
 
You don't need the san-tees, the just help reduce turbulance a bit.

A durso or stockman works by allowing air to enter the standpipe. The air prevents a full siphon from forming. As long as the water cascades down the standpipe (air in the center) then the standpipe will be quiet and predictable. As the flow in the standpipe begins to increase, the airspace decreases. At some point the air starts to form pockets with water above and below it. This causes turbulance and noise. The standpipe will try to siphon but the gurgling air will not let it.

So for a given flow, the larger the standpipe, the more room there is for air and the less apt it is to gurgle.

Bean
 
So basically, depending on the amount of flow you put through a 1" pipe, you should be fine staying at 1". Correct?

In my case very little flow is going through the durso and it is staying quiet so I assume I'll be fine.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12621436#post12621436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty8
That's what I was thinking... I'm pretty sure I know where it is at also. I did a pretty crude job drilling the hole for the airline fitting (didn't have the right size drill bit). So I will more than likely need to pick up a new cap and redo it the right way.
Click to expand...

If you don't want to drill and tap, just reduce the top of the durso down to a JG fitting. Seems to have worked for me.

Durso-Top.jpg
 
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