Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter BeanAnimal
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coolbreeze911
New member
Whew, read basically the whole thread just now great stuff glad I found it before I started drilling holes....
I was looking for a way to quiet the 75g I'm planning now, at first I was just going to add more drain pipes so each one would let in more air and be quieter while still giving me decent flow but I think I just changed my mind so now I'm back to planning for an internal overflow...
I have a question about gas exchange though. How important of a consideration is that when using this system? On my last tank, (29gal) I emptied the overflow from the DT above the water line thinking it would help with this. I didn't mind the splashing NEARLY as much as the suction on the drain though salt creep was pretty substantial. Thoughts on that?
Also, I've seen references to different sites for parts but is there one place that you can usually get all the fittings you need (in the correct sizes) as opposed to going on a treasure hunt like I did for my first tank for the right sized bulkheads to fit the right schedule pvc to all the right sized other fittings? I usually find only one or two parts per site and then I have to go back and forth between carts to make sure the slip has the right ID and OD to fit the pipe on the other site etc etc etc. Maybe I'll luck out and someone will have a parts list with model#'s and vendors on it that they can post. (fat chance prolly lol)
I was looking for a way to quiet the 75g I'm planning now, at first I was just going to add more drain pipes so each one would let in more air and be quieter while still giving me decent flow but I think I just changed my mind so now I'm back to planning for an internal overflow...
I have a question about gas exchange though. How important of a consideration is that when using this system? On my last tank, (29gal) I emptied the overflow from the DT above the water line thinking it would help with this. I didn't mind the splashing NEARLY as much as the suction on the drain though salt creep was pretty substantial. Thoughts on that?
Also, I've seen references to different sites for parts but is there one place that you can usually get all the fittings you need (in the correct sizes) as opposed to going on a treasure hunt like I did for my first tank for the right sized bulkheads to fit the right schedule pvc to all the right sized other fittings? I usually find only one or two parts per site and then I have to go back and forth between carts to make sure the slip has the right ID and OD to fit the pipe on the other site etc etc etc. Maybe I'll luck out and someone will have a parts list with model#'s and vendors on it that they can post. (fat chance prolly lol)
Bean,
You got me thinking. My gutter is basicly like a overflow box but shallow. What if I remove the box altogether? Take a look at this bad paint image and let me know what you think please.
www.home.earthlink.net/~dwacker/drain.JPG
Thanks
Don
You got me thinking. My gutter is basicly like a overflow box but shallow. What if I remove the box altogether? Take a look at this bad paint image and let me know what you think please.
www.home.earthlink.net/~dwacker/drain.JPG
Thanks
Don
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Don,
My only concern with using the gutter itself is the depth. It may prove very hard to keep the siphon from drawing a vortex. For that matter, it may be hard to keep 3000+ gallons of water from creating bubbles as it creates a waterfall into the gutter box.
As for the previous question, I think a 1.5" siphon will get you close to the 3000+ with little problem. It may need to be backed up by a 2 1.5" open channels and a 1.5" emergency drain. What are the maximum dimensions for the overflow box?
My only concern with using the gutter itself is the depth. It may prove very hard to keep the siphon from drawing a vortex. For that matter, it may be hard to keep 3000+ gallons of water from creating bubbles as it creates a waterfall into the gutter box.
As for the previous question, I think a 1.5" siphon will get you close to the 3000+ with little problem. It may need to be backed up by a 2 1.5" open channels and a 1.5" emergency drain. What are the maximum dimensions for the overflow box?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
coolbreeze, all the parts except for the bulkheads can be found at Lowes. You can also order from savko or aquaticecosystems.
Gas exchange will be fine.. The long linear overflow will help to ensure that.
Gas exchange will be fine.. The long linear overflow will help to ensure that.
robertifly
Premium Member
mine is 3/4" over the top ninety'd out just under the water surface which gets the water returned, gives good surface agitation, provides siphon break at just the right time when the pump is shut down to prevent sump overfilling
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
If you go 46" wide, then in effect you have a 46" weir correct? I would think with that much flow, the wide weir would be a must to keep the water velocity down.... but I still fear that the majority of the water will enter at the extreme ends where it is hurtling down the side troughs...
thoughts?
thoughts?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Over the top is the easiest. If you want wave type outflow, then an Oceans Motions device would be a good choice.
Closed loop intakes and returns can be drilled below the overflow box.
What I get now with two small boxes is the noise from the water falling into them. With two 2" drains they stay pretty much empty so the water is falling about 8". Of course a sponge fixes that but I hate changing sponges. The gutters themselves are nearly silent, even more quiet than I expected. I think the water is moving to fast to make noise.
Maybe just adding gate valves to raise the water level and a extra 2" safety drain up higher would do the trick?
May just need to rig up some fittings and try it out before blowing any holes in the back of my stand.
Don
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I suppose you COULD adjust the system so that the water does not really fall, and set the emergency overflow at a level just above the flood stage. The emergency standpipes would need to be rather large so that there would be no delay in them taking the full flow from an imbalance.
So back to your jpg drawing...
same idea, but lower the siphon intake far into the box and put the open channels and emergency intakes up at trough level. Set the system to run at our near the box lip.
So back to your jpg drawing...
same idea, but lower the siphon intake far into the box and put the open channels and emergency intakes up at trough level. Set the system to run at our near the box lip.
LoneRanger
Member
Bean, I am finaly drilling my 1.5" holes for the bulkheads, I can not go from the bottom of the box up like I wanted to so I must go from the side of the overflow in. This side route has me guessing at where my water level will be! If I under stand it correctly the open channel standpipe is really the one that controls the height of the water? The above post said the siphon can be placed anywhere in the over flow box- deep or high with the ball valve adjustment you can control the height of the water flow in the box and upto the open channel (higher).
next question/ problem: all the pictures I have seen shows the water level only halfway covering the horozontal portion of the pvc where it makes the downturn (90*) for the open channel) (and in most pics the syphon too)) does this then not control the water level in the display if the standpipes were actualy inside the display and not in an overflow box???
thanks,
L.R.
next question/ problem: all the pictures I have seen shows the water level only halfway covering the horozontal portion of the pvc where it makes the downturn (90*) for the open channel) (and in most pics the syphon too)) does this then not control the water level in the display if the standpipes were actualy inside the display and not in an overflow box???
thanks,
L.R.
LoneRanger
Member
SUPER BUMP!
could use the help~
could use the help~
coolbreeze911
New member
huh... thanks for that. Our Lowe's must stock different parts cause I couldn't find a valve to match the size pipe I wanted to match the bulkhead I ordered on line that would fit onto the connection to the pump and on and on and on.... but at least I have two more links to try.
LoneRanger
Member
???
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Sorry LoneRanger.. I just saw your posts.
On the way out the door.. but
The water level is a product of both the height of the intakes and the position of the valve. It usually ends up near the backs of the elbows if both the open channel and siphon are at about the same level. Much higher would mean a LARGE portion of the flow was being diverted to the open channel.
Yes, in theory if you setup the system in a display with no overflow weir, you could set the standpipes at the finished water level for the tank and the siphon intake lower. The finished water level would be at least as high as the open channel intakes (or higher) depending on the ball valve setting AND the diameter of the intakes. Once they become fully submerged, then they are no longer acting as open channel intkaes though!
Think about it for a few minutes and I think it will make sense
On the way out the door.. but
The water level is a product of both the height of the intakes and the position of the valve. It usually ends up near the backs of the elbows if both the open channel and siphon are at about the same level. Much higher would mean a LARGE portion of the flow was being diverted to the open channel.
Yes, in theory if you setup the system in a display with no overflow weir, you could set the standpipes at the finished water level for the tank and the siphon intake lower. The finished water level would be at least as high as the open channel intakes (or higher) depending on the ball valve setting AND the diameter of the intakes. Once they become fully submerged, then they are no longer acting as open channel intkaes though!
Think about it for a few minutes and I think it will make sense
robertifly
Premium Member
Bean, I'm thinking of changing my skimmer to a recirc mod and if I do I will want to also feed it from the drain will that be a problem for the siphon drain? I suppose I would need a valve below the tee to skimmer to create backpressure to force enough of the water to divert to the skimmer? You can see a pic of my drain and sump w/skimmer on page 25 about middle of page. BTW I still am getting a surge sound in the drain about every 3 sec. which sounds a little like gentle waves lapping on a beach, just can't eliminate that from the system
LoneRanger
Member
I think I see..... why do I not see more people running this system with a noticable difference in the standpipes? say a few inches from the syphon to the open channel?
my PVC is all 1.5", and my tank for some reason was built with out surface skimming.
I am trying to do this with a minimal amount of air gap on the top side of the tank.
I think I will ponder this while I work on my light rack system. :bum:
L.R. :rollface:
my PVC is all 1.5", and my tank for some reason was built with out surface skimming.
I am trying to do this with a minimal amount of air gap on the top side of the tank.
I think I will ponder this while I work on my light rack system. :bum:
L.R. :rollface:
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